In this episode, Host of E-Commerce Conversations Eric Bandholz and CEO of Ollie Eric Steckling discuss:

• Building durable vs. essential consumable product businesses
• The "at-bats" approach to product innovation
• Recognizing distractions versus real opportunities
• Using customer behavior to validate ideas
• Scaling through subscriptions, content, and retail

 Key Takeaways:

• A durable product can become a growth challenge when customers rarely need to buy it again.
• Treat every product launch as an affordable experiment, giving yourself more chances to discover what truly resonates with customers.
• Customer opinions are valuable, but purchases are the ultimate measure of demand.
• Knowing when to walk away from an idea can be just as important as knowing when to keep improving it.
• The strongest brands don't rely on a single growth channel; they build momentum by combining great products, compelling content, subscriptions, paid acquisition, and eventually retail.

“As long as you're making changes, as long as you know what to do next, then I think you need to keep going.” - Eric Steckling

About Eric Steckling and Ollie:

Eric Steckling is a bootstrapped direct-to-consumer founder behind Brio, a men’s grooming brand known for durable trimmers, and Ollie, an oral care brand focused on high-performance, everyday essentials like toothpaste, mouthwash, and whitening strips. He’s obsessed with product development, creative marketing (especially short-form video), and using constant “at-bats” to turn ideas into hero products that drive real customer lifetime value.

Connect with Eric Steckling and Ollie:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-steckling-95955131/ 

Website: https://olliesmile.com/

Connect with Eric Bandholz, host of ECommerce Conversations:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ericbandholz/?hl=en 

Website: https://www.bandholz.com 

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ecommerce-conversations/id874457373 

Join our newsletter: https://wwspodcast.com/ 

SubSummit will be at Nashville  City Center from June 21- 23, 2027. Join the waitlist HERE: https://subsummit.com/#waitlist 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Startup CPG Podcast founder Daniel Scharff and Former CEO of Brightland Todd Hoffman discuss:

• Daniel Scharff’s perspective on DTC vs retail in food and beverage
• Todd Hoffman’s journey from Chloe’s to Brightland
• How Brightland became a premium, giftable pantry brand
• Subscription behavior and “habit-forming” CPG products
• Channel roles, unit economics, and scaling from DTC into retail

 Key Takeaways:

• Pairing a strong community voice (like Startup CPG) with an experienced operator creates a powerful lens on what actually works in modern CPG.
• Each channel- Amazon, DTC site, B2B, retail- must have a clearly defined job.
• Subscription models only sustain when the product naturally fits into a recurring, predictable habit in the customer’s life.
• Scaling from early adopters to the broader market increases acquisition costs and operational complexity, demanding disciplined financial thinking alongside founder ambition.

“We used to joke around that our marketing budget was smaller than the mayonnaise fund that Unilever had.”  - Daniel Scharff

About Daniel Scharff and Startup CPG Podcast:

Daniel Scharff is the Founder and CEO of Startup CPG, the world’s largest community of emerging consumer packaged goods (CPG) brands. Through Startup CPG, he helps entrepreneurs with free resources, media coverage, and events across 20 cities. He also hosts The Startup CPG Podcast, a top 0.5% globally ranked podcast featuring brand stories, grocery buyers, and industry experts. 

Connect with Daniel Scharff:

Website: https://startupcpg.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danscharff/ 

About Todd Hoffman and Brightland:

As COO of Brightland, Todd Hoffman partnered with the Founder & CEO to define and execute the company’s next phase of growth. He rebuilt the operating model to support scale, led cross-functional planning across S&OP, finance, and commercialization, and improved unit economics through supplier restructuring, packaging and logistics optimization, and manufacturing changes. 

Connect with Todd Hoffman and Brightland:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/todd-hoffman-97aa6a4/   

Website: https://brightland.co/ 

Connect with Nick Trueman:

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/winning-with-shopify/id1373351568 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/winningwithshopifypodcast/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@winningwithshopify 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@winningwithshopify 

Join our newsletter: https://wwspodcast.com/ 

SubSummit will be at Nashville  City Center from June 21- 23, 2027. Join the waitlist HERE: https://subsummit.com/#waitlist 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Payway EVP Kim Miller and CTO Dan Nadeau discuss:

• Anatomy of a card-not-present transaction
• Types of declines and what “do not honor” really means
• Account updater and maintaining clean card data
• Smart retry strategies and payment recovery partners
• Balancing fraud prevention, interchange fees, and revenue growth

 Key Takeaways:

• Declined payments aren’t just a nuisance; they can be a rich source of revenue recovery, customer insight, and improved subscriber experience.
• Understanding which declines are genuinely retriable versus permanent is critical to building an effective recovery strategy.
• Proactive tools exist to reduce recurring declines and protect revenue.
• Blindly retrying failed payments is outdated; structured, data-driven retry strategies with specialized recovery partners deliver better results, faster.
• Payment performance directly impacts acquisition costs, churn, and interchange rates; treating payments as a strategic data asset, not just an expense line, unlocks meaningful growth. 

“Every decline is a churn, and that's a lost customer.” - Kim Miller

“If you are not doing account updater, then you need to do it, because it's just absolutely mandatory for a recurring payment system.” - Dan Nadeau

About Kim Miller, Dan Nadeau, and Payway:

Kim Miller is a seasoned professional with experience in strategy, leadership, management, team building, marketing, sales, and customer success. My career began in advertising, evolved to marketing, which led to business development, which resulted in my current role as an executive. She is always looking to learn something new, whether it's industry-related, work-related, or otherwise. This way, she is never bored and gets to talk and engage with interesting people from all walks of life.

Dan Nadeau is the Chief Technical Officer at Payway, a payments SaaS company focused on subscription and card-not-present transactions. In the Sub Summit Podcast, he explains how payment flows, decline codes, fraud signals, and tools like account updater and payment recovery can significantly improve authorization rates and reduce revenue loss in recurring billing systems. He also highlights how better payment data and analytics help merchants increase approvals and customer retention.

Payway offers a SaaS platform that processes payments for businesses that rely on recurring payments. With advanced fraud protection, payment recovery, and seamless WooCommerce integration, Payway optimizes transactions while ensuring security and efficiency.

Connect with Kim, Dan, and Payway:

Website: https://www.payway.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thisiskimmiller/ & https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-nadeau-2997429/ 

Connect with Nick Trueman:

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/winning-with-shopify/id1373351568 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/winningwithshopifypodcast/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@winningwithshopify 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@winningwithshopify 

Join our newsletter: https://wwspodcast.com/ 

SubSummit will be at Nashville  City Center from June 21- 23, 2027. Join the waitlist HERE: https://subsummit.com/#waitlist 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Nick and Wowzitude Founder Susan Black discuss:

• Origin story of the virtual travel platform
• COVID as a catalyst for tour guides and audiences
• Building authentic, interactive live travel experiences at scale
• Using AI to personalize onboarding, support, and engagement
• Running a lean team and constantly experimenting with AI tools

Key Takeaways:

• A deeply personal problem, like helping an isolated parent during lockdown, can become the spark for a scalable business model that serves millions.
• Live experiences with real human guides can create a powerful community.
• Strategic use of AI for onboarding, conversational support, and content workflows can enable a very small team to operate at a massive scale.
• Treating AI as a true collaborator unlocks more value than treating it like a simple search engine.

“I didn't do it because I saw that there was a market need or a niche. I did it because during Covid, my mother was in lockdown and was going a little crazy as an older adult…” - Susan Black

About the guest, Susan Black and her company, Wowzitude:

Susan Black is the visionary behind Wowzitude, where she’s transforming how we experience travel. With over 40 years of leadership in the travel industry, Susan has fused her passion for exploration with cutting-edge technology to create live, interactive tours that connect people to the world in extraordinary ways.

Under Susan’s leadership, Wowzitude has grown into a global platform reaching 1.2 million subscribers through partnerships with museums, alumni associations, travel agents, and more. Her innovative approach not only inspires travel but also fosters community and cultural connection, proving that virtual experiences can lead to real-world journeys.

Connect with Susan and Wowzitude:

Website: https://wowzitude.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanblackassociates/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susansocial/?hl=en 

Connect with Nick Trueman:

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/winning-with-shopify/id1373351568 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/winningwithshopifypodcast/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@winningwithshopify 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@winningwithshopify 

Join our newsletter: https://wwspodcast.com/ 

SubSummit will be at Nashville  City Center from June 21- 23, 2027. Join the waitlist HERE: https://subsummit.com/#waitlist 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Doug and Fraud Deflect CEO Scott Adams discuss:

• What chargebacks are and how the dispute ecosystem works
• Friendly fraud, first‑party misuse, and subscription businesses
• Building Fraud Deflect from real merchant pain points
• Working with Visa, Mastercard, PayPal, and alternative payments
• Entrepreneurship, co‑founder marriage, and avoiding burnout

Key Takeaways:

• The chargeback system is heavily weighted toward the cardholder, so merchants must proactively defend their revenue instead of reacting after money disappears.
• “Friendly fraud” and first‑party misuse are often more dangerous than classic stolen‑card fraud because they’re harder to detect and easier for customers to justify.
• Deep understanding of chargeback rules, thresholds, and card‑brand programs can save you from suddenly losing your merchant account.
• Listening to merchants will help solve profitable problems and build tools that actually get adopted.
• Clear communication, defined roles, and intentional boundaries are critical when your co‑founder is also your spouse, and just as important for any startup team.

“What my co-founder and I started Fraud Deflect around was to bring solutions together and create our own solutions that help the merchant not only beat those chargebacks but ideally save the sale before it even gets to that point.” - Scott Adams

About the guest, Scott Adams and his company, Fraud Deflect:

Scott E. Adams, Fraud Deflect’s co-founder, is well known and respected in the online business community, the card-not-present payment community, and the affiliate and Internet marketing community. He successfully combines exceptional IT skills and cutting-edge anti-fraud mechanics to solve problems and quickly improve a company’s ROI.

Scott learned he was an entrepreneur and fraud fighter when, early in his career, he grew a small $5M direct response company that was losing their merchant account to a company with revenue of $25M annually and a healthy chargeback rate of 0.7%. During his decade leading that company, He created one of the earliest affiliate metrics tracking systems and developed his own proprietary anti-fraud software.

Connect with Scott and Fraud Deflect:

Website: https://frauddeflect.com 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/speakerscotteadams/ 

Join our newsletter: https://wwspodcast.com/ 

SubSummit will be at Nashville  City Center from June 21- 23, 2027. Join the waitlist HERE: https://subsummit.com/#waitlist 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Nick, Ben Spell (Good Ranchers CEO), and John Roman (Battlbox CEO) discuss:

• Launching and evolving subscription-first business models
• Quality is the foundation for retention and LTV
• Finding and focusing on the right customer persona
• Churn prevention, win-back strategies, and feedback loops
• Tech stack choices, A/B testing, and subscription infrastructure

Key Takeaways:

• Starting with a single, subscription-only product can force clarity on positioning and economics before expanding into one-time purchases and new channels.
• When the product quality is truly superior, retention marketing becomes far more effective than discount-driven tactics.
• Treat subscription platforms as revenue enablers, not just expenses.
• Proactive churn management, through timing, outreach, and listening to cancellation reasons, can be more powerful than pouring budget into acquisition.
• Clearly defined customer personas drive better ad choices, partnership strategies, and a healthier lifetime value.

“You can trick people into buying things, but if you don't have a quality product, they're not going to subscribe, and they're not going to keep buying.” -Ben Spell

About Ben Spell and Good Ranchers: Founded by Ben and Corley Spell to connect people to honest, quality food. By sourcing all meat from local, independent U.S. farms, they bring remarkable quality and real community back to the American table.

Connect with Ben:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benspell 

Website: https://www.goodranchers.com/ 

About John Roman and BattlBox: John Roman is an experienced D2C and B2B strategist currently serving as CEO at BattlBox. Battlbox is your monthly subscription for hand-picked outdoor, survival, EDC, and cool gear chosen for you to carry, use, or add to your emergency stash.

Connect with John:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-roman 

Website: https://www.battlbox.com/ 

Connect with Nick Trueman:

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/winning-with-shopify/id1373351568 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/winningwithshopifypodcast/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@winningwithshopify 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@winningwithshopify 

Join our newsletter: https://wwspodcast.com/ 

SubSummit will be at Nashville City Center from June 21 - 23, 2027. Join the waitlist HERE: https://subsummit.com/#waitlist

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61

About SubSummit: SubSummit brings together thousands of subscription, membership, and recurring revenue enterprises, direct-to-consumer startups, and active investors. Leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Doug, Erin Del Ponte, and Meghan Carlson discuss:

• Legacy D2C brand evolving into subscription-first
• Reframing subscription as a brand experience, not a transaction
• Site, naming, and payment changes to reduce friction
• Internal alignment, education, and marketing
• Data-driven, personalized subscription growth and lifetime value

 Key Takeaways:

• A strong subscription program should feel like an extension of the brand.
• Moving beyond “set it and forget it” requires continuous optimization based on changing trends, features, and customer behavior.
• Internal education and buy-in are critical to confidently communicating the value of subscriptions.
• Frictionless enrollment, flexible management, and modern payment options all contribute directly to higher adoption and retention.
• The long game of subscription success is lifetime value: using data, personalization, and cross-functional alignment to deepen relationships over time.

“When we think about subscription, it's not just a transaction; it's an extension of how we come to life as a brand.” - Erin Del Ponte

Check out the featured companies:

Swanson Vitamins here: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/

OrderGroove: http://www.ordergroove.com/ 

About the guest, Erin Del Ponte:

Erin Del Ponte is a senior marketing executive with over a decade of experience driving growth for consumer brands across CPG, DTC, and eCommerce channels. Specializing in omnichannel marketing, brand strategy, digital transformation, and global expansion, she has successfully led marketing organizations for both high-growth startups and established brands, delivering double-digit revenue growth, increasing customer lifetime value, and strengthening brand equity. 

Connect with Erin Del Ponte:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erindelponte/ 

About the guest, Meghan Carlson:

Meghan Carlson is a customer success and account management professional with a strong background in client services, project execution, and relationship management. As Manager of Customer Success at Ordergroove, she partners with clients to drive business growth, optimize customer experiences, and deliver measurable results through strategic account leadership. She also holds an MBA with a concentration in Marketing from The University of Texas at Dallas. 

Connect with Meghan Carlson: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meghanscarlson/ 

SubSummit will be at Nashville  City Center from June 21 - 23, 2027

Join the waitlist HERE: https://subsummit.com/#waitlist 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Doug and Logan Karam discuss:

• Surface-level vs. deep AI adoption in organizations
• Blending structured and unstructured data with AI in workflows
• Leadership, culture, and task forces for AI enablement
• Why tool access and training alone don’t drive adoption
• The power of AI champions and security-first AI rollout

Key Takeaways:

• Many companies stall at surface-level AI use because they don’t invest the time to deeply understand capabilities or rethink how work is actually structured.
• Real AI impact comes from redesigning workflows, identifying where time is lost, standardizing processes, and embedding AI directly into how tasks get done.
• Adoption is driven by culture and leadership: curious, hands-on teams combined with leadership that mandates rethinking work will move faster than any one “type” of department.
• Measuring AI success requires looking beyond basic usage metrics and focusing instead on cycle times, output volume, performance improvements, and behavior shifts.
• Individual power users and AI champions can dramatically shape how an organization adopts AI, but they must be supported by strong security practices and a cross-functional partnership with IT.

“My thinking has really shifted from adoption is not just an educational problem, but it's a design problem. You have to really change how the work actually happens, and there's a lot of work that goes into that.”  - Logan Karam

About the guest, Logan Karam:

Logan Karam is a Program Director, AI at Fabletics, bringing expertise in program leadership and strategic operations within the apparel retail sector. Their background demonstrates a focus on driving program initiatives and optimizing business processes. Within Fabletics, Logan has progressed through several roles, including AI Program Lead and Operations & AI Program Lead Senior Manager, Strategy. Earlier, at TechStyle Fashion Group, they served as Senior Manager, Strategy & Operations, contributing to strategic planning and operational improvements within the apparel and accessories retail environment.

Logan holds a Bachelor of Science degree from Stanford University and graduated from Lutheran High School of Orange.

Connect with Logan Karam:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-karam/ 

Fabletics: https://www.fabletics.com/ 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also register here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Doug and Domonique Brown discuss:

• AI’s role in retention and post-purchase experience
• Turning voice-of-customer data into real-time CX improvements
• Understanding churn drivers beyond price and discounts
• Automating CX with chatbots while preserving human touch
• Experimentation and strategy for AI-first retention workflows

Key Takeaways:

• When brands obsess over front-end offers and ignore the post-purchase journey, churn rises and lifetime value drops.
• To truly own the customer experience, teams need shared success metrics and a steady drumbeat of customer data flowing across the organization.
• Relying on discounts as a catch‑all fix is a mistake; most cancellation attempts are rooted in UX friction, convenience issues, or lack of education—not just price.
• AI chatbots are ideal for handling high-volume, repeatable, time‑sensitive requests, which lets human agents focus on the nuanced, emotional, and complex situations where they add the most value.
• Whether you’re a fast-growing newcomer or a long‑established brand, you must keep experimenting with AI and iterating your systems to stay aligned with evolving customer behavior and expectations.

“No matter where you are as a brand, whether you are just getting started or whether you are a legacy brand, we're all in the same place. We're experimenting to learn and meet our customers wherever they are.” - Domonique Brown

About the guest, Domonique Brown:

Domonique Brown is the Head of Customer Experience at Liquid I.V., where she has spent the past seven years leading customer support operations, CX technological innovation, voice of consumer data and analytics, and AEO/GEO initiatives. She brings nine years of experience in the direct-to-consumer subscription space, primarily across beauty, health, and wellness brands. At SubSummit 2026, her expertise centers on AI in customer experience, strengthening collaboration between CX and retention teams, improving the end-to-end subscription experience, and building loyalty programs that drive deeper customer engagement and long-term retention.

Connect with Domonique Brown:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/domonique-brown-42229baa/ 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also register here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Doug and Robbie Giles discuss:

• Meta CPM inflation and AI-driven algorithm shifts
• Building creatives that grab the attention of the right people, not just anyone
• Sequencing performance, precision, and trust at scale
• Messaging and visual congruency from ad to landing page
• Rethinking metrics: CTR, CVR, and the power of funnel rate

 Key Takeaways:

• As Meta gets more expensive and algorithmically sophisticated, brands must move beyond simple hook swaps and build genuinely distinct creatives for different audience segments.
• The path to scalable growth starts with precise performance marketing to identify what resonates, then layers on trust through believable promises, proof, and product quality.
• Creatives that win don’t just grab attention; it filters for the right intent so algorithms learn from qualified engagement instead of noisy clicks.
• Consistency between the ad message, landing page copy, and visual identity builds trust and can drive meaningful conversion lifts, especially at scale.
• Evaluating click-through rate or conversion rate on their own can mislead teams; optimizing for the combined funnel rate from impression to conversion is far more powerful.

“I've learned that you can find similarities and learn lessons from companies that actually are very dissimilar.” - Robbie Giles

About the guest, Robbie Giles:

Robbie Giles is the SVP of Consumer Marketing at MasterClass, where he’s turning clicks into customers and marketing into momentum. He leads big-budget campaigns across Meta, Google, TV, and more—mixing sharp data with bold creative to fuel serious subscriber growth. Before that, he helped build the marketing engines at Fandango and Vudu, and got his start at Disney.

Since 2015, MasterClass has been the place where you don’t just learn—you learn from the best. One membership gets you in the room (virtually) with world-class instructors across business, writing, sports, and more.

Connect with Robbie Giles:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbie-giles-a16a5b29 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also register here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Doug and Adam Pivko discuss:

• Creative ladder framework
• CPA–LTV performance metrics
• Scaling creative with feedback loops
• Continuous testing and 1% daily improvement
• Media buying as data acquisition

Key Takeaways:

• Treat creatives like a ladder, not a lottery, and that means ranking assets by effort and forcing every idea to “earn” its way up by proving performance at lower rungs first.
• Clicks and surface-level engagement can mislead; what truly matters is how efficiently you acquire customers and what they’re worth over time.
• Build a tight feedback loop between data and creatives.
• Chase 1% daily improvement instead of home runs because compounding small wins through continuous testing will move your business further than rare “hero” ads that you hope will save the quarter.
• When you see each dollar spent as a way to acquire better, richer insight, you expand what you’re willing to test, learn faster, and unlock more profitable scale.

“To me, media buying is the acquisition of data, and the byproduct of buying better and better data is more profitable revenue.” - Adam Pivko

Adam Pivko at SubSummit:

Adam will be at SubSummit in May. His session is presented along with Phoenix Ha, catch her episode on The SubSummit Podcast as well. The title of the session is “Building & Deploying High-Volume, High-Value Creative Engines.”

About the guest, Adam Pivko:

Adam Pivko is the Chief Marketing Officer at Direct Meds and a long-time operator in the recurring revenue and subscription space. At Direct Meds, he focuses on building and scaling high-volume, high-value creative engines, leveraging a “creative ladder” framework to systematically test and improve ad performance. Adam is deeply driven by an ethos of getting 1% better every day, using continuous experimentation, CPA-to-LTV metrics, and data-driven media buying—where he views media buying primarily as the acquisition of better data. A frequent participant in the Sub Summit community, Adam shares his expertise with founders, CMOs, and growth leaders who are scaling paid media and creative at significant daily spend levels.

Connect with Adam Pivko:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adampivko/ 

Company: https://www.tryautumn.com/ |  https://directmeds.com/ 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also register here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Doug and Reba Hatcher discuss:

• Transition from subscription to retail
• Customer data and Voice of the Customer
• Packaging, labeling, and on-shelf presence
• Loyalty programs and in-person customer experiences
• Retention signals and subscription flexibility

Key Takeaways:

• Going from subscription to shelf, ButcherBox leaned into retail because a huge portion of shoppers still decide dinner at 4 p.m., a moment the subscription model alone can’t reach.
• A tight, disciplined brand story has to live on a tiny piece of packaging. 
• Channel-specific behavior should shape your product format, and after a failed experiment putting boxes on shelves, ButcherBox realized they needed to sell like the rest of the meat aisle—individual cuts, familiar presentation—while still signaling they’re different through design and claims.
• Real loyalty comes from embedding into everyday meals, not just special occasions. 
• Human conversations can be your most advanced data tool, and through Sizzle Society and Chef’s Table dinners, Reba’s team hears unfiltered stories about freezers, family drama, and failed defrosts—context that reframes how ButcherBox designs experiences, messaging, and support.

“We know we are the healthiest option for protein on the planet that you can get delivered... and we're here to transform the meat industry and become the world's first beloved meat brand, because there isn't one—that's our reason for being.” - Reba Hatcher

About the guest, Reba Hatcher:

Reba Hatcher is the Chief Commercial Officer at ButcherBox, where she leads top-line revenue growth and develops new, innovative revenue streams. She oversees pricing, merchandising, revenue retention, and partnerships for the direct-to-consumer meat brand, which recently expanded from a 100% subscription model into major retail channels, including Target and Costco. With a strong focus on being customer-obsessed, Reba champions data-driven decision-making, robust Voice of the Customer programs, and analog, in-person customer experiences such as ButcherBox’s Sizzle Society loyalty program and its Chef’s Table dinners. 

Connect with Reba Hatcher:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebahatcher/ 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also register here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

• Subscription retention and LTV
• Community-driven social commerce
• Authentic, high-performing creative
• Future of live selling
• Building high-volume, high-value creative engines

Key Takeaways:

• Brands obsessed with front-end acquisition but neglecting retention are essentially pouring customers into a leaky bucket, and real LTV power comes from keeping people past months 3, 6, 9, and 12.
• What used to be dismissed as “soft” brand or engagement data now clearly drives repeat purchase and advocacy, as seen in her examples of sneaker culture, TikTok discovery, and constant but thoughtful touchpoints.
• Authenticity in creative outperforms overproduced content. 
• Churning out hundreds of weak iterations isn’t a creative engine; the operators winning are those who build systems that generate many high-quality variations rooted in real consumer behavior and self-skepticism (“would I actually buy this?”).
• Live selling is an under-exploited frontier for subscriptions. 

“The biggest currency is to be able to monetize off of a very authentic and genuine moment. And that's very difficult to do.” - Phoenix Ha

About the guest, Phoenix Ha:

Phoenix Ha is an e-commerce growth operator specializing in building high-velocity creative and performance marketing systems that drive scalable revenue for subscription and social commerce brands. She previously co-founded and led Ad Beacon, a first-party data platform built for the post–iOS 14.5 ad landscape, and helped scale social commerce at Instant Hydration, drawing on a background that spans media buying, SaaS, experiential brand building, and influencer/community management.

Known for her focus on retention, community, and authenticity in creative, Phoenix challenges brands to ask, “Would I actually buy this—and keep subscribing?” Her work centers on turning real consumer behavior into high-performing creative engines, with a sharp eye on the future of live selling and long-term LTV growth.

Connect with Phoenix Ha:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phoenixha/ 

X (Twitter): https://x.com/_phoenixha 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phoenix_ha 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@phoenixha 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also book your tickets here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

• Brands excelling at subscriptions
• Whisker’s data-driven subscription and engagement strategy
• Subscription conversion experiments and UX changes
• Discount and offer testing for subscriber acquisition
• The feedback loop: community, CX, and continuous optimization

Key Takeaways:

• Whisker’s growth engine is its own app ecosystem, which converts litter box buyers into highly engaged subscribers by feeding behavior and device data into CRM. 
• The “hide buy-once” experiment shows how small UX changes can massively shift subscription mix without hurting revenue. 
• Discounting is treated as a testable lever, not a default growth tactic, and Mike’s team is carefully watching whether aggressive first-order offers (35% sitewide and 50% off litter) deliver durable subscriber value or just front-load signups that quickly churn.
• Whisker’s active Reddit base and close partnership with the CX team surface real-world friction in the subscription experience, directly informing roadmap and UX changes.
• A subscription program is managed more like a living product than a one-time setup. 

“From the SubSummit conferences I've been to in the past, I've always garnered a lot from hearing from the speakers and from different companies about their successes as well as their shortcomings.” - Mike Woodall

About the guest, Mike Woodall:

Mike Woodall is the Director of CRM & Subscriptions at Whisker and an experienced digital marketing leader with over 12 years of expertise in email, CRM, and retention lifecycle marketing. He has built and optimized high-performing customer engagement programs for both startups and established enterprise companies. Mike has deep experience working with leading CRM and marketing automation platforms, including Braze, Oracle Responsys, Klaviyo, and Iterable. Known for his strengths in client retention strategy, growth forecasting, and cross-functional leadership, he effectively collaborates with executive teams while guiding marketing initiatives that drive long-term customer engagement and business growth.

Connect with Mike Woodall:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikejwoodall/ 

Website: https://www.whisker.com/ 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also book your tickets here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

• What SubSummit is and who it serves
• How SubSummit differentiates itself from other conferences
• The “Crossroads of Commerce” theme and changing omni‑channel expectations
• Key trends in recurring revenue and customer experience
• Who will be at SubSummit and how to attend

Key Takeaways:

• Sub Summit is built by people who have actually run subscription businesses, so its content is grounded in real operator experience rather than theory, and attendees leave with practical playbooks and solutions they can plug directly into their own recurring revenue models.
• Sub Summit is designed for intentional, problem-solving conversations, especially through daily industry roundtables where 6–10 merchants dig into specific challenges together. 
• “Omnichannel” is no longer a buzzword at Sub Summit—it’s treated as a baseline expectation that brands truly live across product placement and marketing.
• Flexible options like visible pause/cancel features, buy-now-pay-later, and value-adding partnerships are presented as core levers for long-term retention and higher LTV.
• Sub Summit emphasizes relationship-building as much as learning, with examples of attendees forming ongoing peer groups and mentorships that persist long after the event. 

“We’re not talking theory, we’re not talking ambiguous ideas. It’s really practical knowledge, and you’re walking away with those playbooks that you can immediately apply to your business.” - Jennifer Cline

About Jennifer Cline:

Jennifer Cline is a data-obsessed marketing leader who turns audience insights, engagement metrics, and behavioral trends into high-impact strategies. As Chief Marketing Officer at SubSummit, she focuses on growing and supporting the global recurring revenue ecosystem—spanning subscription, membership, loyalty, and rewards. Jennifer thrives at the intersection of DTC, e-commerce, and retail, using data to refine messaging, optimize content, and uncover the next big shifts in consumer behavior. At SubSummit, the only event dedicated to the $3 trillion recurring revenue economy, she leads the charge in creating experiences where brands connect, learn, and leave with actionable strategies that drive real results.

Connect with Jennifer Cline:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifermcline/ 

SubSummit will be in Kansas City, May 13-15, 2026

Attend SubSummit FOR FREE Here: 

https://subsummit.com/hosted-merchant-meetings-program/ 

You can also register here: https://subsummit.com/tickets/ 

Book your meeting with Christopher George from SubSummit here: 

https://meetings.hubspot.com/chris3306/linkedin-profile?uuid=0c103e97-4adc-4c16-bbe6-794c92ab9c61 

About SubSummit:

SubSummit brings together thousands of executives and operators from established enterprises, direct-to-consumer, fast-growing startups, innovative tech companies, active investors, and more. These pioneers come from across a broad range of industries, including e-commerce, media, publishing, retail, streaming, SaaS, digital, automotive, and beyond.

From FabFitFun to Walmart+ to MasterClass, the world’s leading brands leverage SubSummit to remain catalysts in consumer engagement and product experiences.

Simply put, if you’re in subscription, membership, or recurring revenue, you’re at SubSummit.

Website: https://subsummit.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/subsummit/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sub_summit/ 

Show notes by Podcastologist: Hanz Jimuel Alvarez

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.