Key Takeaways:

• The modern internet is no longer separate from “real life”; it’s the infrastructure for how people connect, express themselves, and earn a living.
• Open standards for social networking can let people choose the platforms that reflect their values while keeping their audiences and relationships intact.
• Web monetization proposes a middle path between invasive ads and subscription fatigue, using passive micropayments to support the creators we spend time with.
• Financial exclusion and high remittance fees show how today’s digital money networks leave billions behind, especially in lower-income countries.
• Small, values-aligned choices like where you host your content, which financial institutions you use, or how you use AI can cumulatively challenge existing power structures and build a more just web.

"The power of the internet came from all of the smaller networks coming together to interconnect with each other, and what we have started as local communities who had agency in their own space now suddenly able to take that thing that connects them locally and connect to other people globally." — Jeremiah Lee

"What matters to them is connecting to the creator, and if your deal with your platform isn't good enough, you can move to another platform and take your audience with you and that's really the goal here." — Evan Prodromou

Episode References: 

• Web Monetization: webmonetization.org 

About The Interledger Foundation: 

Interledger Foundation believes payment networks should be interoperable to remove barriers to participating in the global financial ecosystem.  Since 2020, the Interledger Foundation has awarded $20 million in over 40 countries, supporting organizations researching and building Open Payments solutions using the Interledger Protocol (ILP). The Interledger network connects financial infrastructure to make payments easier, faster, and less expensive. 

About the Social Web Foundation:

The Social Web Foundation works to advance an open, interoperable, and decentralized social web through research, standards development, and community collaboration.

Connect with Jeremiah Lee: 

Website: https://interledger.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremiah-x-lee/ 

Connect with Evan Prodromou:  

Website: https://socialwebfoundation.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanprodromou/

Connect with Kristine:

The PlayFull Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-playfull-podcast-with-kristine-michie-bringing-fun/id1676838213?action=write-review

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Trust is not only essential between people; trusting oneself unlocks the courage to dream boldly, imagine radically, and play without fear.
• Movements for social change often begin with a simple invitation to come out and play, to walk toward one another across divides, and to join a shared mission.
• Identity is shaped through play and imagination, and the stories people tell about themselves can either confine them or set them free.
• Philanthropy that is grounded in humility, proximity, and unrestricted trust capital can shift focus from problems and punishment to asset-based investment in human potential.
• Sharing honest stories of struggle, recovery, and survival can literally save lives, reminding listeners that their story is still unfolding and that help and hope are available.

"We live the lives of the stories we tell ourselves." — Shawn Dove

"Stay true to your mission, focus on the work." — Shawn Dove

"Trust in ourselves gives us permission to dare to dream." — Shawn Dove

About Shawn Dove: Shawn Dove’s leadership mission mantra is “there is no cavalry coming to save the day. We are the iconic leaders that we have been waiting for; curators of the change we are seeking to see.”

The co-author of I Too Am America: On Loving and Leading Black Men & Boys, Dove is the founder of the Corporation for Black Male Achievement, a coaching and publishing firm that facilitates leadership development engagements that amplify stories of loving, learning, and leading by and for Black men and boys.

Dove also currently serves as Managing Partner for New Profit, a venture philanthropy firm that invests in breakthrough social entrepreneurs advancing strategies that address systemic injustice across the nation.

He served as CEO of the Campaign for Black Male Achievement (CBMA), which launched in 2008 at the Open Society Foundations (OSF) and spun off into an independent entity in 2015. CBMA invested close to $250 million to support and connect leaders and organizations working on behalf of the field of Black Male Achievement.

Connect with Shawn Dove: 

Website: ​​https://newprofit.org/ 

Book: https://dovesoars.com/book/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-dove/ 

Connect with Kristine:

The PlayFull Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-playfull-podcast-with-kristine-michie-bringing-fun/id1676838213?action=write-review

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Resilience is not about how far someone falls, but about cultivating the inner and communal resources to bounce back higher than before.
• Joy and imagination are not luxuries; they are essential tools for resisting oppression and reclaiming a sense of possibility about the future.
• Acts as simple as mentorship, connection, and resource-sharing can “unfreeze” people trapped in cycles of isolation, poverty, and racism.
• Telling one’s own story and enabling young people to do the same is a powerful way to build agency, shift narratives, and seed future leadership.
• Elderhood can be a season of “refirement,” where wisdom, experience, and intergenerational relationships fuel new forms of contribution and impact.

"One of my mantras is not how far you fall, it's how high you bounce, and I have a lot of bounce to the ounce, and I share with leaders that there is someone that is watching you that you don't even know that is rising up in their leadership calling only because they're watching you rise. Up in yours." — Shawn Dove

"I think imagination and play are opposite sides of the same forever flipping a coin. I don't think you can have one without the other." — Shawn Dove

"I believe that we need to start creating this framework, less of retirement and more of refirement." — Shawn Dove

About Shawn Dove: Shawn Dove’s leadership mission mantra is “there is no cavalry coming to save the day. We are the iconic leaders that we have been waiting for; curators of the change we are seeking to see.”

The co-author of I Too Am America: On Loving and Leading Black Men & Boys, Dove is the founder of the Corporation for Black Male Achievement, a coaching and publishing firm that facilitates leadership development engagements that amplify stories of loving, learning, and leading by and for Black men and boys.

Dove also currently serves as Managing Partner for New Profit, a venture philanthropy firm that invests in breakthrough social entrepreneurs advancing strategies that address systemic injustice across the nation.

He served as CEO of the Campaign for Black Male Achievement (CBMA), which launched in 2008 at the Open Society Foundations (OSF) and spun off into an independent entity in 2015. CBMA invested close to $250 million to support and connect leaders and organizations working on behalf of the field of Black Male Achievement.

Connect with Shawn Dove: 

Website: ​​https://newprofit.org/ 

Book: https://dovesoars.com/book/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-dove/ 

Connect with Kristine:

The PlayFull Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-playfull-podcast-with-kristine-michie-bringing-fun/id1676838213?action=write-review

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Kristine Michie sits down with Dani Klein Modisett, Founder and CEO of Laughter On Call, to discuss the profound ROI of Laughter. Dani shares how her journey, from stand-up comedian to Alzheimer’s caregiver, led to a breakthrough realization: humor is a bridge that can cross even the widest gaps of isolation and cognitive decline. They delve into how leaders can use "intentional laughter" to lower team stress, the importance of authenticity over "being funny," and why joy is a radical act of endurance in the face of hardship.

Key Takeaways:

• Laughter can be intentionally used as a tool to create trust and deepen connection, especially in high-stress environments like caregiving, healthcare, and social impact work.
• You don’t need to be a professional comedian to use humor effectively; what matters most is authenticity, presence, and a willingness to reveal something true and specific about yourself.
• In leadership, self-awareness is critical: humor lands best when leaders acknowledge how they’re perceived and use lightness in a way that aligns with their own style and their team’s reality.
• Joy and humor are not a denial of hardship or injustice; they are often what make it possible for people to endure difficult conditions and continue doing hard, necessary work.
• In times of crisis, play and laughter can become powerful community builders, bridging isolation, crossing cultures, and helping teams feel human, seen, and connected.

"It's very hard to feel joy when you don't have health care [for example]. And so that's where I think [joy] becomes a social responsibility. If we believe that joy is part of human condition, how do we as a nation support all our people in having access to that?" — Dani Klein Modisett

"After they laughed, she handed my mother a glass of water, and my mother took the water because trust had been created, because that's one of the byproducts of sharing laughter." — Dani Klein Modisett

About Dani Klein Modisett: Dani Klein Modisett is the Founder/CEO of Laughter On Call. She is also a comedian/actor and author of the book, “Take My Spouse, Please” (Shambhala Press, 2015), a part-memoir, part how-to for creating shared laughter to keep your marriage happy and healthy. Dani taught Stand-Up at UCLA for 10 years and has coached keynote speakers, business leaders, and Congressional candidates to use more humor in their communication. She has been a speaker at CALA, ICAA, Stanford, MIT, Columbia, UCLA, Dartmouth, Fuqua, and Harvard Business School, where Laughter On Call is used as a case study. Her writing has appeared in AARP, the NY Times, the LA Times, and Parents Magazine. Dani is part of the Milken Alliance for Better Aging and has been named to the Forbes 50>50 list.

Connect with Dani Klein Modisett: 

Website: https://www.laughteroncall.com/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/laughteroncall/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/laughteroncall 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/laughteroncall 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/laughter-on-call 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6CpHvRdIgr0X7mh7kaWsMQ/videos 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@laughteroncall

Connect with Kristine:

The PlayFull Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-playfull-podcast-with-kristine-michie-bringing-fun/id1676838213?action=write-review

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Kristine Michie speaks with Tracee Worley, a futurist and experience designer, about how imagination helps people and communities navigate uncertainty and shape the future. They explore the growing economic influence of women, the impact it could have on leadership and funding, and Tracee’s work creating “artifacts from the future” through projects like “Letters from the Future” and Seneca Falls 2048. The conversation also touches on play, community trust, and why imagination is a practical, collective tool for building what comes next.

Key Takeaways:

• By 2035, women in the United States are projected to be the largest holders of wealth, which could significantly shift what gets funded, supported, and brought to life.
• Creating “artifacts from the future” is a powerful way to materialize bold, liberatory visions and make distant possibilities feel tangible in the present.
• Imagination can function as a survival tool and a form of resistance, especially for those historically denied power, allowing them to claim a seat at the table where the future is being made.
• Charging for visionary and movement-aligned work while using sliding scales and values-based pricing honors both the labor involved and the emotional, spiritual value participants receive.
• Play lowers the stakes, quiets the fear response, and helps adults access deeper imagination, but it must be grounded in trust, especially in communities carrying active harm and historical trauma.

"Imagination is also a form of resistance. It is a way for me to claim a seat at the table where the future is getting made, and we all have the ability to do that." — Tracee Worley

"No future is already written. It's up to us at any given moment to decide the dream that we want to move towards." — Tracee Worley

"Play shuts off the fear response, so that imagination can actually happen when you're playing." — Tracee Worley

About Tracee Worley: Tracee Worley is an experiential futurist and designer dedicated to "midwifing" more just and imaginative worlds into being. As the Founder and Creative Director of Radical Futures, she creates immersive, participatory experiences that help individuals and organizations move beyond traditional planning toward a practice of collective dreaming.

Drawing on a rich background in design strategy and cultural insight—including work with IDEO and Emerson Collective—Tracee specializes in creating "artifacts from the future." Through projects like Seneca Falls 2048, she uses worldbuilding and play to bypass the brain’s fear response, allowing people to rehearse possible futures and claim their seat at the table where the future is made.

Her work is grounded in the belief that imagination is not a luxury but a vital form of resistance and a survival tool for navigating uncertainty. Tracee’s practice sits at the intersection of strategy and social transformation, helping communities turn "what if" into tangible, liberatory action.

Connect with Tracee Worley: 

Website: https://radicalfutures.studio/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/traceeworley/

Connect with Kristine:

The PlayFull Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-playfull-podcast-with-kristine-michie-bringing-fun/id1676838213?action=write-review

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

About Rimga Viskanta: Rimga Viskanta is a public sector leader and elected school board trustee known for her work in local government, sustainability, and community-focused leadership. With a background spanning public administration, environmental policy, accounting, and civic engagement, she has built a career focused on strengthening public institutions and the communities they serve. Rimga currently serves as a trustee on the San Dieguito Union High School District Board, where she has also served multiple terms as Board President, focusing on governance, student well-being, fiscal stewardship, and collaborative problem-solving. Through her work, she is recognized for combining analytical expertise with a people-first approach, bringing practical solutions to complex challenges while advocating for sustainable and inclusive progress.

Key Takeaways:

• Real bridge-building starts by refusing to see every issue as two opposing sides and instead looking for shared values and common goals.
• Campaigning rewards loud, uncompromising salesmanship, but effective governing often requires quiet listening and evaluating ideas on their merits rather than their source.
• Local action like city-level environmental policies can both ease personal anxiety about global crises and “trickle up” to influence state and national change.
• Bureaucrats and public servants, when trusted and given flexibility, are often the ones who know how to turn lofty resolutions into practical, effective steps.
• To sustain the emotional weight of public life, it is essential to step away, feel your feelings fully, and intentionally refill your energy through grounding practices like time in nature.

"The people who are the best salesmen and the best packagers of themselves are [often] the ones who are elected; that doesn't mean they have the skills for good governance." — Rimga Viskanta

"Democracy is local." — Rimga Viskanta

About Rimga Viskanta: Rimga Viskanta is a civic leader and public sector professional with experience in local government, education, sustainability, and community development. A longtime Encinitas resident and mother of three, she currently serves on the San Dieguito Union High School District Board of Trustees and previously served on the Encinitas Union School District Board, including as Board President during the COVID-19 pandemic. Her professional background spans both the public and private sectors, including work with the City of Solana Beach on sustainability initiatives, homelessness, and government services, as well as experience in property management and accounting. Rimga holds a Master of Public Administration from the University of Southern California and a bachelor’s degree in Environmental Sciences from the University of Virginia.

Connect with Rimga Viskanta: 

Website: Voteforviskanta.com

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Through stories of his upbringing in a faith-centered, service-oriented home and his work at Google.org, Hector demonstrates how joy, connection, and shared human experiences can rebuild trust, bridge divides, and prepare Americans for the next technological era. He discusses the critical role of AI guardrails, workforce preparation, economic safety nets, voter access, and government accountability in ensuring opportunity and equity.

At its heart, this conversation invites listeners to reimagine civic engagement as a practice of human connection, collective responsibility, and proactive leadership.

Key Takeaways:

• Civic engagement starts with connection, not agreement; play and shared joy humanize divisions and build trust.
• Today’s moment is a convergence of inflection points: democratic, social, economic, and technological, accelerated by AI.
• Leadership must pair vision with practical guardrails to ensure technology serves people, not just power.
• Workers need early warnings, reskilling pathways, and economic safety nets to face automation disruptions.
• Voting systems must balance integrity and accessibility; the government should provide free IDs to all eligible citizens.
• Strong floors and no ceilings: no one should fall through the cracks, and ambition should be unhindered.
• Ethical AI, economic justice, and accountable governance are intertwined priorities for a healthy society.
• Human connection, play, and joy are strategic tools for building resilient, inclusive civic life.

“Loving your neighbor is not a sign of weakness. It’s truly how you build community and how you build a nation.” — Hector Mujica

“Guardrails are not the enemy of innovation… they create the right environment for innovation to succeed.” — Hector Mujica

“What we need in this country are strong floors and no ceilings.” — Hector Mujica

About Hector Mujica: Hector Mujica is a first-generation American, father, and bridge-builder raised in South Florida after his family immigrated from Venezuela. For the past 15 years, Hector worked at Google, where he helped deploy nearly $1 billion in investments to expand job training, support small businesses, and strengthen local economies across the United States and the Americas. His work focused on a simple idea: economic growth only works when opportunity is broadly shared. Hector is running for U.S. House to bring a pragmatic, results-oriented mindset to Florida’s 28th District, restoring common sense and rebuilding trust in politics. Learn more about Hector at hectormujica.com.

Connect with Hector Mujica: 

Website: https://hectormujica.com/ 

X: http://x.com/hectormujicafl 

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/hectormujicafl.bsky.social 

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@hectormujicafl  

Instagram: http://instagram.com/hectormujicafl

TikTok: http://www.tiktok.com/@hectormujicafl

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HectorMujicaforFL 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• The economy is rigged, but it can be rebuilt. Michael argues that today’s systems favor billionaires and large corporations over working families and Main Street, and that real change requires designing new structures rather than returning to what already failed.
• Trust grows from listening, not hierarchy. Political leadership rooted in deep listening and transparency creates space for people to feel seen, heard, and involved, even when answers are imperfect.
• The opposite of play is concentrated power. Rigid, top-down systems silence creativity and joy, while playful, human moments restore agency and participation in civic life.
• Small businesses are community anchors. From family history to policy impact, Michael sees small businesses as trusted local institutions, and the first to feel when government fails.
• Stories reveal the stakes of policy. Personal encounters, such as families choosing between healthcare and marriage and businesses struggling post-COVID, shape priorities more honestly than abstractions.
• Hope is built through presence. Grassroots energy, shared mission, and frequent in-person connections sustain resilience in the face of high political stakes.

"Government has to deliver for people constantly. When we rebuild, we don’t just rebuild what was there and what was not working for people, but we reinvent something that is far better than what was there before." — Michael Roth

“It’s not about being in an enclosed room with a bunch of policy experts drawing things out. It’s about being connected with community.” — Michael Roth

"Small businesses are cornerstones of our main streets, of our communities. They are what make home feel like home." — Michael Roth

About Michael Roth: Michael Roth is the former head of the U.S. Small Business Administration, a CEO with nearly 20 years of economic development experience, and is now running as a Get-Stuff-Done Democrat for Congress in New Jersey’s 7th Congressional District to unseat Tom Kean Jr. and deliver real results for working people in New Jersey.

Connect with Michael Roth: 

Website: https://www.michaelrothforcongress.com/ 

Instagram: instagram.com/michaelrothnj 

Twitter: twitter.com/michaelrothnj 

Facebook: facebook.com/michaelrothnj 

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/michaelrothnj.bsky.social 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

She reframes work as more than a place for earning and productivity, calling it a training ground where people are conditioned to accept surveillance, hierarchy, and authoritarian dynamics. Through critique and lived experience, she exposes contradictions within philanthropy, leadership, and “progressive” spaces that fail to bring justice.

She also offers a path—rooted not in nostalgia, but in the courage to reimagine something better. Through collective action and a new relationship to labor, she invites listeners to see joy not as decoration, but as evidence of justice taking root.

Key Takeaways:

• Treating seriousness as the only form of professionalism strips work of humanity and makes justice work harder to sustain.
• “Joy” is often used as branding by institutions that fail to deliver material change, especially around wages and benefits.
• Nostalgia for a “better past” often reflects privilege, overlooking harm experienced by marginalized groups.
• Workplaces condition people to accept authoritarianism, surveillance, and class hierarchy.
• Transforming work is essential to protecting democracy, as people cannot practice freedom in society if they are denied it at work.
• Real change requires collective organizing, boundary-setting, and letting go of the belief that progress comes without personal cost.
• Burnout is not a badge of honor, but a signal that systems are broken.
• Joy is not superficial; it is a practice tied to building a more just and livable future.

"Nothing changes unless we're willing to change our relationship to work. And we have to stop being proud of how tired we are, how burnt out we are." — Aparna Rae

"I would say the real practice of joy is being able to reimagine a future and taking actions to actually make that a reality." — Aparna Rae

"The invitation is to be honest with yourself. The invitation is to think about what's possible, not just for you, but for everybody else that's on this planet." — Aparna Rae

Episode References: 

• Circle Back Club – https://circleback.club 
• We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite - https://bookshop.org/p/books/we-have-never-been-woke-the-cultural-contradictions-of-a-new-elite-musa-al-gharbi/34b76557eb96d043
• What Your Comfort Costs Us: How Women of Color Reimagine Leadership to Transform Workplace Culture - https://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Comfort-Costs-Leadership/dp/B0D9JFX13W

About Aparna Rae: Aparna Rae is a leader and advocate focused on advancing equity and transforming workplace culture. With experience across philanthropy, nonprofits, and tech, her work sits at the intersection of social impact and organizational change.

As host of Circle Back Club, she worked with over 60 organizations to shift more than $300 million in grantmaking toward BIPOC-led and Global South organizations. She has also contributed to the tech sector as a product lead and advisor, including developing India’s first online teacher education platform, Firki.

Aparna co-founded Future for Us, supporting 20,000 women of color across multiple cities, and has led initiatives that resulted in millions in pay increases for frontline workers. She continues to advise mission-driven organizations and advocate for more equitable systems of work.

Connect with Aparna Rae: 

Website: https://www.aparnarae.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/appyrae 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aparnarae/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Through stories like the monks' Peace Walk that captured global attention and rural bus tours filled with moments of wonder, they show how shared experiences rebuild trust and inspire participation. Their work expands civic life beyond voting to include belonging, imagination, and relationships that sustain communities over time.

At its core, this conversation invites a shift from being against something to being for something: peace, connection, and shared responsibility, reimagining participation as something people can truly belong to.

Key Takeaways:

• Joy and play are essential tools that build trust, lower barriers, and create entry points for participation.
• Disengagement is often misread as apathy, when it reflects systems that make people feel their voices don’t matter.
• People are seeking opportunities to stand for something together, shifting civic energy toward shared purpose.
• Lasting engagement is built through relationships and trust over time, not rushed efforts in crisis.
• Expanding beyond traditional tactics opens the door for more inclusive and accessible participation.
• Shared experiences become identity anchors, turning moments into stories that communities carry forward.
• Experimentation is essential, requiring a willingness to test ideas and adapt.
• Hope is not passive but sustained through action, storytelling, and visible change.

“I don't believe in voter apathy, because apathy puts the blame on the individual, not the systems and structures that make people feel like they can't participate or their vote doesn't matter.” — Cate Mayer

“We are living in a moment where everything feels like we're against something, but this was for something… for peace, for community, for each other.” — Cate Mayer

“I think it's okay to go into these spaces with some half-baked ideas… because sometimes, even if the cookies come out kind of off, the dough is still delicious.” — Jeanine Abrams McLean

“When I hear people say that my vote doesn't matter… I can give examples from other communities… if we listen and work together, we can bring that hope back.” — Jeanine Abrams McLean

Episode References: 

• Be The Ones: https://www.betheones.org
• Fair Count: https://faircount.org/
• The Center for Artistic Activism (C4AA): https://c4aa.org/
• The Reimagination Lab: https://www.betheones.org/reimaginationlabC4AA 
• Be The Ones, Fair Count Field Test Report: https://c4aa.org/news/field-tests-event-recap/ 

About Cate Mayer & Jeanine Abrams McLean:

Cate Mayer is the Founder and Executive Director of Be the Ones, a South Carolina–based organization focused on removing barriers to civic participation and building a culture of joyful, community-centered engagement. Her work emphasizes creativity, youth leadership, and reimagining civic systems to be more inclusive and relational.

Jeanine Abrams McLean, PhD, is the President of Fair Count, an organization that began with a focus on census participation and has expanded into civic engagement, public health, and power-building work across the South. She leads efforts that blend experimentation, storytelling, and community-centered design to reach underserved populations.

Connect with Cate Mayer:

Website: https://www.betheones.org

Connect with Jeanine Abrams McLean, PhD:

Website: https://www.faircount.org/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Together, they discuss the need for collective healing, the role of storytelling in building empathy, and how workplaces can serve as powerful spaces for change. Gabriela also brings in the importance of play, joy, and embodiment, showing how creativity and connection are not distractions from leadership, but essential to reimagining a more just and human-centered world.

Key Takeaways:

• Comfort maintains systems that limit our humanity, often protecting the status quo at the expense of deeper connection and equity.
• Healing cannot be done alone; the work must happen in the space between us through relationships, culture, and shared responsibility.
• Workplaces reflect the broader world, but they also offer a practical space where change can be tested, practiced, and expanded outward.
• Stories create connection in ways data cannot, helping people see patterns, build empathy, and understand experiences beyond their own.
• Play and joy are essential leadership practices that unlock creativity, deepen connection, and sustain people through difficult work.
• True leadership is grounded in service, requiring alignment with values and a commitment to something greater than personal success.
• A more human future is possible when we move away from scarcity and fear toward collective imagination, dignity, and shared flourishing.

“We give up our humanity when we stop laughing, when we stop playing.” — M. Gabriela Alcalde

“I believe we have to share in the healing… We need to work on the space between us, the culture, and that can only be done in community, collectively.” — M. Gabriela Alcalde

“There are so many other ways to be human… and that doesn’t take anything away from anybody else. It just adds to our collective well-being.” — M. Gabriela Alcalde

Episode References: 

• What Your Comfort Costs Us: How Women of Color Reimagine Leadership to Transform Workplace Culture - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/773170/what-your-comfort-costs-us-by-gabriela-alcalde/ 
• Elmina B. Sewall Foundation - https://www.sewallfoundation.org/ 
• Inclusion On Purpose, With A New Preface And Readers' Guide: An Intersectional Approach To Creating A Culture Of Belonging At Work - https://www.ruchika.co/inclusion-on-purpose 
• Justice Funders - https://justicefunders.org/ 

About M. Gabriela Alcalde:

Born in Lima, Peru, Dr. Alcalde is a creative leader with experience in the philanthropic, academic, governmental, nonprofit, and grassroots sectors. She writes and speaks locally, nationally, and internationally about shifting the philanthropic and nonprofit sectors, culture change, racial justice, and leadership of women of color. She earned a bachelor’s degree in psychology from the University of Louisville, a master’s in public health from Boston University, and a doctorate in global public health from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. What Your Comfort Costs Us is her first book.

Connect with M. Gabriela Alcalde: 

Website: www.mgalcalde.com

Book: What Your Comfort Costs Us: How Women of Color Reimagine Leadership to Transform Workplace Culture - https://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Comfort-Costs-Leadership/dp/B0D9JFX13W 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Kristine Michie sits down with Nikki Dinh, Iman Mills Gordon, and Ericka Stallings from the Leadership Learning Community (LLC) to explore the shift from equity work toward a broader vision of liberatory leadership. Together, they discuss why equity can sometimes mean making an unjust system slightly better, while liberation asks a deeper question: how do we build systems that are life-giving, joyful, and just?

The conversation explores LLC’s approach to leadership development through experimentation, network-building, and collective learning. Nikki, Iman, and Ericka share stories that shaped their commitment to liberation, from immigrant and neighborhood organizing roots to traditions of community care and collective leadership. They also discuss how joy, play, trust-building, and shared experiences help leaders sustain the journey toward collective liberation.

Key Takeaways:

• Liberatory leadership shifts the goal from improving unjust systems to building new systems rooted in freedom, justice, and collective flourishing.
• Equity work remains important, but it is reframed as part of the pathway toward liberation rather than the final destination.
• Leadership Learning Community operates as a learning organization that prioritizes experimentation, curiosity, and collaboration.
• Network thinking, including practices like “closing triangles,” helps connect people working toward shared goals who might otherwise never meet.
• Play and joy are not distractions from justice work but essential practices that help activate creativity, connection, and resilience.
• The current moment includes a crisis of trust across institutions, communities, and within ourselves, making relationship-centered leadership more critical than ever.
• Spaces for collective learning and shared experience help leaders remember they are not alone and reconnect with purpose.

"Our hope for the world is more human-centered connections - and more joyful human-centered connections." — Nikki Dinh

"Even in hard times, that practice of dreaming and building together can feed us and move us toward the world we want to see." — Iman Mills Gordon

"If you take something crappy and make it less crappy, it’s still crappy. Liberatory leadership shifts the goal—we’re not just making things less harmful, we’re working toward a liberated future." — Ericka Stallings

Episode References: 

Leadership Learning Community – https://leadershiplearning.org 

Network Weaver – https://networkweaver.com 

About Nikki Dinh: Nikki Dinh is a leader at the Leadership Learning Community focused on community-driven solutions and liberatory leadership. Raised in a Vietnamese immigrant community in California, her background in legal aid, philanthropy, and nonprofits reflects her belief that communities are best positioned to solve their own challenges.

About Iman Mills Gordon: Iman Mills Gordon, from Oakland, California, brings a lifelong commitment to collective liberation shaped by family, community, and generational wisdom. At LLC, she helps strengthen liberatory leadership through collaboration, experimentation, and the principles of love and joy.

About Ericka Stallings: Ericka Stallings, from Queens, New York, developed her commitment to justice through observing inequities across communities. At LLC, she cultivates spaces for leaders to grow and align their work with their values. She previously supported organizing and advocacy efforts across New York City.

Connect with Nikki Dinh, Iman Mills Gordon, and Ericka Stallings: 

Website: https://leadershiplearning.org/ 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Andrea also reflects on her journey from community organizing in Appalachia and West Tennessee to business school at Yale School of Management, where she developed the financial tools that later shaped her leadership at Prosperity Now and eventually the launch of Capitalize Good. Along the way, Kristine and Andrea discuss trust-based philanthropy, the importance of financial technical assistance, and why humor, music, and play can help sustain the serious work of social change.

Key Takeaways:

• Nonprofits operate like businesses with a social mission. They need enterprise capital, flexible funding that strengthens the whole organization.
• Enterprise capital is multi-year funding for staff, systems, technology, reserves, or experimentation, not just short-term projects.
• Many nonprofits solve problems the market ignores. This work needs long-term funding and resilience, not one-year grants.
• Andrea’s path shows that financial skills help nonprofit leaders advocate, manage strategy, and use resources effectively.
• Funders who support enterprise capital trust leaders provide flexible funding and offer technical assistance with capital.
• Enterprise capital builds stability and resilience, helping nonprofits survive crises and continue serving communities.
• Humor, music, theater, and community bring joy into serious work and keep people engaged over the long term.

"Nonprofits need this kind of equity - this flexible money - more than for‑profits, because they're solving problems the market can't solve, and that takes a degree of patience and subsidy." — Andrea Levere

"People who are interested in social and economic justice need to get [finance] skills." — Andrea Levere

"Resilience is our resistance." — Andrea Levere

Episode References: 

• Prosperity Now – https://prosperitynow.org 
• Yale School of Management (Yale SOM) – https://som.yale.edu 
• Urban League of Broward County – https://www.ulbroward.org/  
• Legacy Museum / Equal Justice Initiative – https://museumandmemorial.eji.org 
• How the Word Is Passed – https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/673171/how-the-word-is-passed-by-clint-smith/ 

About Andrea Levere: Andrea is the founder and CEO of Capitalize Good, an organization that seeks to scale the delivery of enterprise capital--multi-year, flexible funding invested into the net assets of an organization. This capital is an essential complement to other types of grants in that it builds both financial reliance and advances social impact. Andrea has an over 40-year career, which includes economic development finance, serving as CEO of Prosperity Now for 15 years, and chairing multiple Boards of Directors for CDFIs, foundations, and advocacy organizations. 

Connect with Andrea Levere: 

Website: www.capitalizegood.org 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/capitalize-good-llc/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Giving should feel energizing, connective, and playful, not heavy or paralyzing. Joy and love fuel sustained action and community resilience.
• From small giving circles to collaborative funds moving billions annually, collective philanthropy is relational, motivating, and powerful. Participants often call it the most fulfilling giving they do.
• Giving circles blend innovation and primal practice: mutual aid, neighbor-to-neighbor care, and shared responsibility. The real shift is redefining who counts as a philanthropist: everyone!
• Research like The Collaborative Effect shows collaborative funds excel by emphasizing proximity, partnership, and centering grantee voice.
• Philanthropy isn’t only for millionaires. Organizations must diversify funding and support, especially as institutional and government resources shift. Never assume who will—or won’t—show up.

"Everybody that is around working in social impact… You have to love humanity. You have to love what you do." — Sara Lomelin

"The way of revitalizing funding again is spreading the net… reaching out to your own community and never assuming who can give and who cannot give." — Sara Lomelin

"The findings show that this model performs in the top percentile of institutional funds because of the five P's: proximity, partnership, patterns of practice, and the way they embed power in the model with grantees." — Sara Lomelin

About Sara Lomelin: Sara Lomelín is the founding CEO of Philanthropy Together (PhT), a global field catalyst expanding the power of collective giving. She is a 2025 TIME100 Philanthropy honoree, a TED mainstage speaker, and was named to the Forbes 50 Over 50: Impact list for her visionary leadership transforming who participates in—and leads—philanthropy.

Sara launched the Latino Giving Circle Network (LGCN), now the largest network of Latinx philanthropists in the U.S., and has trained leaders in over 20 countries. Her work has been featured in ForbesWomen, Stanford Social Innovation Review (SSIR), Chronicle of Philanthropy, Inside Philanthropy, and more.

Under her leadership, PhT has helped fuel a movement of nearly 4,000 collective giving groups and 370,000 everyday philanthropists who have contributed over $3.1 billion USD to nonprofits. Her team champions a vision of philanthropy rooted in equity, belonging, and community-driven decision-making.

Giving circles—PhT’s core focus—bring people with shared values together to pool resources and decide collectively where to give. Sara’s work helps redefine what it means to be a philanthropist by making generosity accessible, joyful, and impactful.

She is energized by cross-cultural collaboration and building community across generations, regions, and lived experience.

Connect with Sara Lomelin: 

Website: https://philanthropytogether.org/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philanthropytogether 

X: https://twitter.com/phil_together 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/philanthropy-together/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/philanthropytogether/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PhilanthropyTogether/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Personal resilience matters: relationships, time outdoors, and restorative practices help leaders sustain energy amid high-stress work.
• Organizational joy and low-stakes fun build infrastructure: playful team-building and celebrations maintain morale and strengthen commitment.
• Imagination must have guardrails: reimagining systems is important, but dismantling effective programs too quickly puts life-saving infrastructure at risk.
• Privilege carries responsibility: those with safety and influence should assess what risks they can take to act meaningfully in the moment.
• Faith and values can guide action: spiritual and values-driven networks play key roles in social movements and philanthropy, often overlooked by progressives.
• Action is broader than money: showing up, leveraging skills, networks, and voice can drive impact even without titles or financial resources.
• Circles of control, influence, and concern help focus efforts: identify what you can directly affect, where you have sway, and the larger issues you share with others.

"A lot of nonprofits that are providing vital services… aren't going to be there anymore, and who's going to suffer? People in those communities. And so I think we will have to step up." — Phil Buchanan

"We have to protect what we can that’s good and important, even as we try to imagine a better future." — Phil Buchanan

"Everybody's got different assets… Take stock of what those are, what you can do, and then do the thing." — Phil Buchanan

About Phil Buchanan: Phil Buchanan, president of CEP, is a passionate advocate for effective philanthropy and a strong nonprofit sector. Hired in 2001 as the organization’s first chief executive, he has led CEP into a leading provider of data and insight on philanthropic effectiveness.

Phil is the author of Giving Done Right: Effective Philanthropy and Making Every Dollar Count, published by PublicAffairs and named “Best Philanthropy Book of the Year” by Inside Philanthropy in 2019. He co-hosts the podcast Giving Done Right with CEP’s Grace Nicolette and blogs regularly for the CEP Blog. He has written op-eds for The New York Times and Financial Times, speaks widely on philanthropy, and frequently comments in the media.

He is co-founder of YouthTruth, a CEP initiative harnessing student perceptions to improve K–12 education. In 2016, he was named Nonprofit Times “Influencer of the Year” and repeatedly listed on its “Power and Influence Top 50.” Phil has served on multiple nonprofit boards and currently chairs the Institute for Nonprofit Practice.

Born in Toronto, Canada, Phil grew up in Portland, Oregon, attended Wesleyan University (Government, Butterfield Prize winner), and earned an MBA from Harvard Business School.

Connect with Phil Buchanan: 

Website: https://cep.org/, https://givingdoneright.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-center-for-effective-philanthropy

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Language shapes perception. Moving from “hard-to-count communities” to “historically undercounted communities” shifts responsibility from people to systems and reframes the work toward justice.
• Storytelling is as powerful as statistics. While data validates impact, lived experience changes hearts, and both are necessary for meaningful change.
• Haitian-led development matters. Sustainable progress happens when local leaders design solutions rooted in cultural understanding and community ownership.
• Democracy requires participation beyond voting. Civic engagement includes organizing, storytelling, education, and creative tools like gaming to activate the next generation.
• Giving builds security. As Johanne reflects, helping others isn’t depletion; it strengthens collective and personal stability.

"If you're able to be privileged to have enough, why not share, you know, that will be a sense of security." — Johanne Meleance

"Educate yourself, get engaged, and do something because it is going to take all of us to make sure that we maintain the freedoms that we have in this country." — Jeanine Abrams McLean

About Johanne Meleance: Johanne Meleance is a Haitian-American nonprofit executive and global development leader advancing Haitian-led solutions. As Executive Director of Help for Haiti, she leads community-centered work in education, food security, and long-term development rooted in dignity and local leadership. Since 2018, she has expanded impact and built trusted global partnerships while remaining deeply connected to the communities she serves. She holds an MS from Northeastern University, studied at Université Paris-Sorbonne, founded The African Sustainability Project, and is committed to centering Haitian voices in lasting change.

About Dr. Jeanine Abrams McLean: Dr. Jeanine Abrams McLean is President of Fair Count, a nonpartisan organization founded by Stacey Abrams to advance fair census counts and sustained civic participation. A researcher with over 20 years of experience, she has authored 25+ peer-reviewed publications and previously advanced public health initiatives at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. At Fair Count, she has led statistically robust census undercount mapping in all 50 states, centering Black and Latinx communities and pairing research with grassroots action. She serves on the U.S. Census Bureau’s National Advisory Committee and was recently selected for the 2023 Keseb Democracy Fellowship.

Episode Reference:

• Registration Link: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__us02web.zoom.us_webinar_register_WN-5FaLrLOHqiTFCmoud42JDNxw&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=KE-8wq1y7Kppyo4MJ_sNDkqOE219uvCK9zBxnSZc8LU&m=VgiJRF7nOlwPQviVuPd01m5Wf38ToerUgTXLeXKQJc6TPu0xMj218PgO3DE2E0dm&s=AQvCgLAXmwNgZdWMPY4WsxEejipI-z_EKYCMY1SHWzM&e=

Connect with Johanne Meleance: 

Website: https://helpforhaiti.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johanne-meleance/?originalSubdomain=ht 

Connect with Jeanine Abrams McLean: 

Website: https://faircount.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanine-abrams-mclean-phd/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/faircount/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/faircountgeorgia/ 

X: https://twitter.com/faircount , https://twitter.com/JAbramsMcLean 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Murmuration is the phenomenon of birds flying in formation, each influencing the seven birds around them, and thus a great metaphor for individual acts and community organizing.
• Emma’s group empowers local organizations with data-driven insights, civic engagement tools, and strategies to strengthen participation.
• Every community is unique, but local conversations foster and spread shared solutions that cut through political divides.
• Murmuration’s Civic Pulse program surveys 500 people daily to capture community concerns and highlight national trends in hope and engagement.
• Small, tangible wins at the local level—like securing a stop sign near a school—can unlock momentum for larger systemic change.
• Philanthropy must move beyond one-off victories to invest in long-term civic infrastructure that sustains progress.
• Democracy depends on active participation, and when people engage locally, they build resilience against systemic threats.

"If our democracy is under threat, participate in it, because the more of us that are participating, the less under threat it is." — Emma Bloomberg

"Those who control the data, control the systems, control the outcomes, and what we’re trying to do is democratize that." — Emma Bloomberg

"One of the reasons [progress] slips away is that there isn’t that investment in the broader community ecosystem." — Emma Bloomberg

Episode References: 

Deep South Today: https://deepsouthtoday.org/

Civic Pulse (Murmuration program): https://insightsbymurmuration.substack.com/p/about-civic-pulse

About Emma Bloomberg: Emma Bloomberg is the founder and CEO of Murmuration, a civic engagement organization she launched in 2014 to equip community-based groups with the data, tools, and strategies needed to reduce inequality and strengthen democracy. Previously, she served as chief of staff and senior planning officer at the Robin Hood Foundation, where she worked to fight poverty in New York City. She sits on the boards of the Bloomberg Family Foundation, KIPP Foundation, New Classrooms, and Leadership for Educational Equity, and co-leads the Emma and Georgina Bloomberg Foundation, which supports education and animal rights initiatives. A longtime advocate for systemic change through civic participation, she has also advised the Mayoral Leadership in Education Network at Harvard Kennedy School and chaired the Stand for Children Leadership Center.

Connect with Emma: 

Website: https://murmuration.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-bloomberg-07a52215/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Use metaphors and playful language to unlock creativity and connection in tense or ideologically diverse spaces.
• Interrupt burnout cycles by building regular pauses into your routine for reflection, release, and recalibration.
• Strengthen collective courage by creating environments where discomfort and difference are embraced, not avoided.
• Resist reactive thinking by choosing intentional, purpose-driven narratives that focus on hope and possibility.
• Anchor big visions in an abundance mindset instead of retreating to risk-averse strategies in uncertain times.
• Engage across divides by leading with curiosity and shared human values rather than assumptions or ideology.
• Reflect daily on both your actions and your emotional truth to align your leadership with inner clarity and intention.

"What play does is it takes away the rules, it lets us suspend the rules of the reality that we're in. It lets us use different parts of our mind and feel into the possible." — Rachel Brown

"Now is not the time to contract. We have to keep our ambition, because the problems are getting bigger. So I am telling nonprofit leaders to keep those BHAGs, those North Stars, those 10x visions." — Emma Colenbrander

"When you are standing in front of a wall, and you just keep beating your head against the wall, you will not notice that there is a doorway three feet to your right." — Nealin Parker

About our Changemakers:

• Fatima Goss Graves is the President and CEO of the National Women’s Law Center and a co-founder of the TIME’S UP Legal Defense Fund, leading national efforts in gender justice and legal advocacy. [LinkedIn]
• Julia Roig is the Founder & Chief Network Weaver at The Horizons Project, promoting peace, justice, and democracy through narrative and restorative practices. [LinkedIn]
• Rachel Brown is the Founder of Over Zero, working to prevent identity-based violence by shifting harmful narratives and empowering community resilience. [LinkedIn]
• Ina Breuer is the Executive Director of NEID Global, a national peer-to-peer learning community of global donors, social investors, and families committed to equitable and impactful philanthropy. [LinkedIn]
• Jennifer Carolyn King is the founder of Rugged Elegance and co-leader of The Butterfly Effect Fund, investing in women-led ventures, mental health, and global social entrepreneurship. [LinkedIn]
• Emma Colenbrander is the Managing Director at Spring Impact and co-founder of Pollinate Group, helping nonprofits and social enterprises scale solutions for underserved communities. [LinkedIn]
• Nealin Parker is the Executive Director of Common Ground USA, part of Search for Common Ground, using peacebuilding principles to bridge divides within the United States. [LinkedIn]
• Sandy Herz is a former philanthropic executive at Sobrato Philanthropies and the Skoll Foundation, now curating The Elephant and the Butterfly Substack to share insights from 100 global changemakers. [LinkedIn]

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Economic empowerment is essential to bridging inequality and building stronger, more inclusive communities.
• AI and automation are transforming work, but worker participation in shaping this transition is vital to ensure fairness and opportunity.
• Trust-based philanthropy creates greater impact by centering people, embracing flexibility, and building long-term collaboration with grantees.
• Regional partnerships in California demonstrate how locally tailored solutions can scale effectively and address diverse community needs.
• Advocacy and worker inclusion in AI policy discussions help safeguard equitable outcomes in a rapidly changing economy.
• Joy and playfulness sustain leaders, fostering resilience and purpose in the pursuit of social change.

“Jobs get eliminated, but new jobs get created, which is true, but the folks in the old jobs don't necessarily get the new jobs. And so we have this transition window within which we need to empower workers to have a say in how this happens.” — Don Howard

“If we want to bring our democracy to a healthier state, we need to make sure that the AI revolution doesn't create a whole new generation of folks who are struggling.” — Don Howard

“My encouragement to philanthropy is to focus. To think about people-centered philanthropy and to trust grantees.” — Don Howard

Episode References: 

• The Bridgespan Group — https://www.bridgespan.org/ 
• ACT UP (AIDS activist and advocacy group) — https://actupny.com/ 
• Warehouse Workers Resource Center — https://warehouseworkers.org/ 
• One Fair Wage — https://www.onefairwage.org/ 
• 22nd Century Initiative — https://www.22ci.org/ 
• Surdna Foundation — https://surdna.org/ 
• Public Policy Institute of California — https://www.ppic.org/ 
• California Jobs First — https://jobsfirst.ca.gov/ 
• Fresno Food Innovation Center (Build Back Better grant) — https://www.eda.gov/funding/programs/american-rescue-plan/build-back-better/finalists/central-valley-community-foundation 
• Inland Empire Growth & Opportunity (IEGO) — https://iegocollab.com/ 

About Don Howard: Don Howard is the President and CEO of The James Irvine Foundation, leading the foundation to a singular goal: ensuring all low-income workers in California have the power to advance economically. Don has extensive experience speaking in California and nationally on the imperative to create better jobs, empower low-wage workers, and create a more equitable economy.

Connect with Don Howard:

Website: https://www.irvine.org/ 

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/don-howard/ 

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-james-irvine-foundation/posts/?feedView=all 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Build teams intentionally around those historically excluded from power; let them demonstrate their capacity to lead complex, high-stakes work.
• Embed humor into your culture and contracts as a form of resilience and connection in emotionally demanding environments.
• Create intentional spaces—emotional, virtual, or physical—for people to process, connect, and develop coping strategies in challenging times.
• Anchor every action in a clear strategy, ensuring your tactics serve long-term goals rather than concern about near-term reactions.
• Speak openly about your faith if it fuels your justice work, and bridge divides by engaging faith communities as vital allies in progressive change.
• Focus less on debates about shifting language and more on why those words matter to you and what results you're striving to achieve.
• Allow yourself or others to step back or pause when needed, recognizing rest as essential to long-term impact.
• Treat joy, music, and play not as luxuries but as powerful tools that restore energy, deepen purpose, and sustain your commitment to justice.

"If you're a person of faith, scream it, particularly on the left… get right with people of faith. They are going to be the wedge … to set us free." — Robert Raben

"[Our movements] are under assault again, but we have always been under assault. That's what conservatives do, and [regardless] we, who now call ourselves progressives, keep moving forward." — Robert Raben

"Humor, to me… is a mark of resilience." — Robert Raben

About Robert Raben: Robert Raben is a strategist’s strategist on a lifelong mission to inject humanity, common sense, equity, and justice into the fabric of American politics and culture. He is the president and founder of Raben, a mission-driven national public affairs and strategic communications firm committed to making connections, solving problems, and inspiring change across the corporate, nonprofit, and government sectors. Beyond his work, Robert has served on the boards of The Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, NRDC, the UnidosUS Action Fund, President Barack Obama’s My Brother’s Keeper Alliance, the Mississippi Center for Justice, and others. Robert previously served as assistant attorney general under President Bill Clinton. Robert was the first openly gay man to receive Senate confirmation and to lead a law enforcement agency. He also served as counsel to U.S. Rep. Barney Frank and Democratic counsel for two subcommittees of the House Judiciary Committee. The Miami native is a graduate of the Wharton School and New York University Law School. 

Episode References: 

I Love the Lord; He Heard My Cry: https://open.spotify.com/track/6I0J0pZkuCmastxfvgzdyZ?si=4d3d48e30a6045a8

I've Got the Joy, Joy, Joy Down in My Heart: https://open.spotify.com/track/1ubwRHcUhPJcpiG6QvAMJt?si=6e65962b53574295

Oh Happy Day: https://open.spotify.com/track/2CvxJaYyNX6xVhpIhqU02B?si=33af8ea330024792

Connect with Robert: 

Website: https://www.raben.co/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robert.raben/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-raben-11304a73

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robert.raben/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Play is foundational to human flourishing. Cognitive, emotional, and social health benefit from playful experiences, which help build empathy, resilience, and connection while reducing loneliness.
• Play enhances workplaces and productivity. Organizations that model playful leadership, encourage experimentation, and create spaces for real play see engagement and creativity increase.
• Understanding play personalities unlocks performance. Recognizing intrinsic motivators—like movement, exploration, or collecting—supports sustained motivation, prevents burnout, and fosters creativity in both athletes and professionals.
• Play strengthens character and education. Through playful workshops and experiential learning, individuals can cultivate resilience, curiosity, accountability, and other strengths in safe, low-stakes settings.
• Play is a social and philanthropic imperative. Investing in play multiplies mental health, optimism, and joy, making it essential for nonprofit sustainability and societal well-being.

"People understand play as being in opposition to work, and that's actually not true. Play can supplement work, make it more productive." — Mia Sundstrom

"Fundamentally, an investment in play is an investment in human and societal flourishing." — Mia Sundstrom

"Play is actually a really safe space for us to practice and learn about ourselves and the strengths of character." — Mia Sundstrom

Episode References: 

• World Health Organization (WHO) – Loneliness statistic
• https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/mental-health-strengthening-our-response 
• Play personalities/play styles – https://nifplay.org/what-is-play/play-personalities/ 

About Mia Sundstrom: Mia Sundstrom is the CEO of the National Institute for Play (NIFP) and the granddaughter of founder and play expert Dr. Stuart Brown. She also serves part-time as a project manager for character education at the University of Denver.

She has spoken to global audiences, including Aspen Ideas and the World Expo in Osaka, delivering keynotes, leading workshops, appearing on podcasts, and consulting with schools and organizations on using play and character strengths to enhance learning, leadership, and innovation.

A former NCAA Division I assistant coach and team captain for the University of Denver’s top-10 gymnastics team, Mia helped lead the program to a historic fourth-place finish. She holds a Master’s in Public Policy (’23) and a Bachelor’s in Business Information and Analytics (’21).

Carrying on her grandfather’s legacy, Mia is dedicated to advancing the science and application of play worldwide.

About Lauren Sundstrom: Lauren is a Board Member of the National Institute for Play, founded by her father, Dr. Stuart Brown. She is deeply committed to advancing his legacy and brings passionate, lived experience to her role. 

Connect with Mia Sundstrom: 

Website: https://nifplay.org/, https://www.miasundstrom.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-national-institute-for-play/posts/?feedView=all 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/playinstitute/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Play is not escapism but a practice of stepping into discomfort. Growth and reconciliation emerge when people meet the unknown with curiosity instead of fear.
• Faith expands beyond dogma into meaning-making. Interfaith engagement reveals diverse traditions as part of a shared sacred whole.
• Polarization feeds on projection and dehumanization. Spiritual practice calls for self-examination and recognizing the divine in those seen as “other.”
• Authentic leadership requires emotional range. Joy, grief, humor, and vulnerability all belong in spaces of healing and justice.
• Unapologetic manifestation reframes desire as communal. When people fully express themselves, abundance expands rather than competes.
• Imagination precedes systems change. New futures emerge when people can envision what does not yet exist.

"Unapologetic manifestation is to know that when we achieve our goals, when we achieve our heart’s desire, that it actually lifts the whole world." — Ken Daigle

"If you keep the idea to yourself, it stays just here, but when we share it, it refines it and grows it." — Ken Daigle

"Stop negotiating with your limitations and start partnering with possibilities." — Ken Daigle

Episode References: 

• National Institute for Play: https://nifplay.org/ 
• Unity San Francisco: https://unitysf.com/ 

About Ken Daigle: Ken Daigle is a visionary thought leader, author, teacher, and spiritual leader devoted to exploring the human journey and its capacity for transformation. His path began in professional theater, moving from New Orleans to New York City in 1980, where he built a successful career as a dancer.

Raised Catholic, Ken left the church after coming out as gay, later returning to spirituality through New Thought following the HIV diagnosis of a close friend. In 1988, Ken was diagnosed as HIV-positive himself. During this time, he studied spiritual healing with Marianne Williamson and pursued his artistic dreams, performing in the Broadway revival and national tour of Fiddler on the Roof under legendary director and choreographer Jerome Robbins.

While in recovery and overcoming addiction, Ken felt called to deepen his spiritual life. He returned to structured practice within the Unity Church, eventually attending ministerial school in Kansas City and becoming an ordained reverend. Today, he serves as Senior Minister of Unity San Francisco.

Ken is also the creator of Absolute Abundance, a transformational course taught in spiritual communities across North America for more than a decade. Through his Five Steps framework and his book Unapologetic Manifestation, Ken empowers people to turn desire into meaningful, grounded change and build lives they love.

Connect with Ken Daigle: 

Website: TheFiveSteps.org 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ken.daigle.39 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kendaigle/ 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Activist burnout is not a personal failure but a structural risk to movements. Joy and rest are essential conditions for long-term resistance.
• The idea that faith and politics should be separate is culturally specific, not universal. Avoiding faith discourse leaves its definition to authoritarians.
• Social movements are emotional and cultural before they are strategic. Playful protest offers glimpses of the world movements are trying to build.
• Ritual reconnects people to their bodies, communities, and material reality. Faith traditions offer humor, symbolism, and embodied practices that sustain action.
• Symbols allow movements to communicate without explanation or expertise. History shows symbols and ritual can mobilize ordinary people at scale.
• Personal origin stories reveal how solidarity is learned. Hope grows through cross-faith collaboration and emerging ecosystems of resistance.
• Fun and self-care sustain long-term engagement. Offline reflection preserves an inner life that cannot be captured or commodified.

"Faith is… an incredible source for meaning making and for ritual and for community and for structure, - we need to bring our values to the way in which we relate to them to create a faith tradition worth preserving." — Zev Mishell

"One of my most important religious principles is … ‘trying to pursue truth as I understand it." — Zev Mishell

"Modern politics just is religion by other means… questions of faith are at the center of every struggle over power. And religion is never neutral." — Scot Nakagawa

"Symbols are important because they allow movements to reach further, to actually make statements without making sentences." — Scot Nakagawa

About Scot Nakagawa: Scot is a Senior Programs Strategist, activist, organizer, and educator with more than four decades of experience confronting white supremacist movements, authoritarianism, and the religious right. He has worked with organizations including the Highlander Research and Education Center, the National LGBTQ Task Force, and ChangeLab. He currently serves as Senior Programs Strategist of the 22nd Century Initiative, a national strategy hub supporting mass movements at the intersection of defending democracy and challenging authoritarian power, including the 12:01 network focused on resisting ethnic nationalism and systemic injustice.

About Zev Mishell: Zev Mishell is the Senior Programs Strategist at Interfaith Alliance, where he leads countering-hate initiatives, manages in-person and virtual programming, and supports the Interfaith Leadership Network. He studied religion and politics at Harvard Divinity School with a focus on faith-based advocacy and brings experience in interfaith organizing and international engagement across the United States, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East.

Connect with Scot Nakagawa & Zev Mishell: 

Website: https://www.zevmishell.com/ 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/zev-mishell-665b3b1a7 

Connect with Scot Nakagawa: 

Website: endpoliticalviolence.org; 22ci.org

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Words can harm or heal depending on use. Poetry and law offer parallel tools to shape reality and advocate for change. Mindful language uplifts, teaches, and connects.
• Writing toward joy transforms sorrow into continuity. His most recent book, Doggerel, shows how personal struggle coexists with delight.
• Freedom Reads builds and delivers beautiful, brand-new, curated libraries. Placing them centrally in prison cell blocks to encourage daily engagement with books and community. 
• Accessible books foster hope and possibility. Flexible formats and early access to first-edition books make serious thought and beauty available to those inside.
• Accountability, care, and early mentorship shaped Betts’ teaching and advocacy. Prison experiences revealed the power of education and word-sharing. 
• Recognition, like the MacArthur Fellowship, provided space for creative risk and initiative expansion. Integrating poetry, performance, and Freedom Reads strengthens multiple identities. Strategic scaling multiplies impact.

"The Freedom Library is this belief that you can bring joy into a space through a built object… freedom begins with a book, and that’s freedom for everybody." — Reginald Dwayne Betts

"I was writing Doggerel while all of those things were happening, and I feel like easily this is the most joyous collection of poems I’ve written… not because they avoid sorrow, but because they recognize that sorrow is part of a continuum of life." — Reginald Dwayne Betts

"Sometimes we think our joy is trivial… I wanted to push back against that, to put joy in a really serious context." — Reginald Dwayne Betts

About Reginald Dwayne Betts: Reginald Dwayne Betts is a poet and lawyer. A 2021 MacArthur Fellow, he is the Executive Director of Freedom Reads, a not-for-profit organization transforming access to literature in prisons through the installation of Freedom Libraries nationwide.

For more than twenty years, he has used poetry and essays to explore prison, violence, and incarceration’s impact on American society. The author of a memoir and three poetry collections, he adapted his American Book Award–winning Felon into a solo theater work examining post-incarceration life and the enduring consequences of a criminal record through poetry, story, and the art of paper-making.

In 2019, Betts won the National Magazine Award for Essays and Criticism for a New York Times Magazine piece chronicling his journey from prison to becoming a licensed attorney. His honors include fellowships from Radcliffe, Guggenheim, New America, and Aspen. He holds a J.D. from Yale Law School.

Connect with Reginald Dwayne Betts: 

Website: https://www.dwaynebetts.com 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freedombeginswithabook/ 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Quote:

"Religious diversity is America’s founding promise… [and] the strength of America’s founding, because it shows that we can come from many different places… and [we can] build something together." — Jenan Mohajir

Key Takeaways:

• Building a healthy society requires holding big differences while cooperating around shared values. Bridge-building is a practiced skill, not avoidance or agreement.
• Pluralism goes beyond diversity by actively engaging differences toward a shared public life. Presence without participation does not create belonging.
• Lasting civic and interfaith healing happens most reliably at the local level. Small communities often cooperate better because relationships are unavoidable and real.
• Faith often deepens through service and encounter across traditions. Engaging difference can clarify belief rather than weaken it.
• Polarization increases when people rely on rigid litmus tests instead of shared human concerns. Curiosity creates more space for cooperation than fear ever can.
• Joy and play are sustaining practices for people doing difficult work. They anchor resilience without denying pain or hardship.
• Trust-based philanthropy creates longer-lasting impact by investing in people and vision. Sustainable change requires trust, patience, and shared risk.

"We live in an ecosystem that is coexistent, and it is important for us to remember that if one part of the ecosystem starts to diminish in health, it is eventually going to affect the entire ecosystem." — Jenan Mohajir

"For me, joy has to often be not independent of things like gratitude and humility and the recognition [that] the hard stuff doesn’t negate the joy. It’s actually being able to hold the duality of that together that’s really important." — Jenan Mohajir

Episode References: 

• Interfaith America https://www.interfaithamerica.org/
• Team Up Project https://teamupproject.org/
• YMCA of the USA https://www.ymca.org/
• Habitat for Humanity https://www.habitat.org/
• Catholic Charities USA https://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/
• Future Caucus https://www.futurecaucus.org/
• America’s Best Idea: The Separation of Church and State (Randall Balmer) https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/788363/americas-best-idea-by-randall-balmer/
• Man’s Search for Meaning (Viktor Frankl) https://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl-ebook/dp/B009U9S6FI

About Jenan Mohajir: Jenan Mohajir is an educator, storyteller, mother, and believer in building relationships across divides. She serves as Vice President of External Affairs at Interfaith America, developing strategic plans, creating programs, and forging partnerships with philanthropic leaders. Over 19 years at IA, she has trained hundreds of young leaders to practice civically engaged leadership. Inspired by her family and faith, she works at the intersections of gender, sexuality, race, and religion. A natural storyteller, she performs with 2nd Story in Chicago. Jenan lives on the south side with her children and collects vintage children's books.

Connect with Jenan Mohajir:

Website: interfaithamerica.org 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Hope grows when expressed in public action. Acting toward the good strengthens discipline. Faith matures when tied to shared responsibility.
• Prayer and imagination sharpen courage. Spiritual practices steady us in tension. Using them wisely redirects harmful narratives.
• Aligned thought, emotion, and action create stability. Wholeness supports clearer leadership. Unity inside fuels impact outside.
• Where we invest energy reveals our commitments. Embodied choices shape fairness and access. Action is a form of ethical care.
• Grief enlarges compassion for others’ pain. Honest sorrow softens reactive harm. Practicing grief deepens moral clarity.
• Stillness sharpens discernment in chaos. Listening expands prayer and presence. Attention becomes a grounding discipline.

"Voting is an act of faith." — Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart

"The tools of faith – first of all, imagination. Somebody has to conceive of it first in their minds before it is concretized." — Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart

"Much of my ministry has been concerned with how we manage grief and loss. I really think if we knew how to grieve collectively… then maybe we wouldn't hurt each other so much." — Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart

Episode References:

• Political Research Associates https://www.politicalresearch.org 
• Religion Dispatches https://religiondispatches.org/ 
• The Fellowship of Affirming Ministries https://www.radicallyinclusive.org/ 
• United Church of Christ https://www.ucc.org 
• Mosaic Youth Theater of Detroit https://mosaicdetroit.org/ 
• Detroit Public Schools https://www.detroitk12.org 
• Villanova University https://www.villanova.edu 
• Swarthmore College Black Cultural Center https://www.swarthmore.edu 
• Octavia E. Butler Graphic Novel Series: 
• https://www.amazon.com/Kindred-Graphic-Adaptation-Damian-Duffy/dp/1419728555 
• https://www.amazon.com/Parable-Sower-Graphic-Novel-Adaptation/dp/141975405X/ 
• https://www.amazon.com/Parable-Talents-Graphic-Novel-Adaptation/dp/141974948X 
• SAGA Comic Series https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/saga  

About Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart: Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart, a daughter of Detroit, is a Black queer preacher, teacher, strategist, and justice advocate. She is an adjunct professor of theology and religious studies at Villanova University and Strategic Partnerships Director at Political Research Associates, where she supports research and strategy advancing democracy and justice. In 2021, she founded Salt | Yeast | Light, and she serves on multiple boards and advisory councils, including Pride in the Pews, SIECUS, and Americans United for Separation of Church & State. During 2025-2026, she is Theologian-in-Residence at the Black Cultural Center at Swarthmore College.

Connect with Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart:

LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/heartleaps

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEs50323Yr8sW9_nQBSzqww 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oholyshift/?hl=en

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Shared moral frameworks create opportunities for solidarity across secular and religious communities, strengthening collective efforts for social good.
• Humor, lightheartedness, and play become tools of resistance that unlock new solutions, keep teams grounded, and counter the heaviness of systemic challenges.
• Leaders who bring their faith, doubts, values, and sense of fun into their work show up with greater authenticity, resilience, and connection.
• Training in communication and strategy equips faith leaders to mobilize their communities and influence policy toward justice-oriented outcomes.
• Creative hobbies, time in nature, music, rest, and relationships help activists stay emotionally regulated, hopeful, and steady in demanding seasons.

"When we pray, we’re actually trying to align ourselves with what God wants here and now... Jesus calls us to really put our values and beliefs into action here and now, to love our neighbor here and now, and that’s how we draw close to God." — Rev. Jennifer Butler

“True faith is actually playful and joyful and life-giving... What play does and joy is it really helps us lift our head and our perspective to understand that God created and called everything good.” — Rev. Jennifer Butler

"Faith, by nature, is full of doubt. It’s the assurance of things hoped for, things not yet seen. And I think for me, that assurance is just a commitment. God is justice, God is liberation, God is love, and I am committed to that even when it looks bleak." — Rev. Jennifer Butler

Episode References: 

• Faith in Public Life – https://www.faithinpubliclife.org
• Faith Forward – https://www.faithforward.org  
• Poor People's Campaign – https://www.poorpeoplescampaign.or
• Southern Poverty Law Center – https://www.splcenter.org
• Race Forward – https://www.raceforward.org
• Who Stole My Bible? – https://bookshop.org/p/books/who-stole-my-bible-reclaiming-scripture-as-a-handbook-for-resisting-tyranny-jennifer-butler/3addfaf4b5046647?ean=9781735739205&next=t&utm_source=google&utm_medium=pmax&utm_campaign=16243454879&utm_content=&utm_term=%7Bsearchterm%7D&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=16235479093&gbraid=0AAAAACfld407veBNiJLyYT48gtSOpnmJe&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgP_JBhD-ARIsANpEMxwLMtrR7qVdCEGXbHY6sHJ-J6PgBMwrIWp_4jgmiFpPfkMI5hLFcPUaAgwQEALw_wcB 
• Leap of Faith film – https://leapoffaithfilm.com

About Rev. Jennifer Butler: Rev. Jennifer Butler is a nationally respected faith leader, author, and organizer working at the intersection of religion, democracy, and social justice. She is the founder of Faith in Democracy and formerly led Faith in Public Life, building multi-faith movements for human rights. Rev. Butler is the author of Born Again: The Christian Right Globalized and Who Stole My Bible?, and her work has been featured in outlets like the New York Times, MSNBC, and NPR. She began her career as the Presbyterian Church (USA)’s representative to the United Nations and served in the Peace Corps in Belize.

Connect with Rev. Jennifer Butler:

Website: www.revjenbutler.com, www.faithdemocracy.com

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Faith can unite, or it can divide. It’s up to us.
• Communities grow stronger when they choose to face hard topics with honesty. Staying in the dialogue builds trust even when agreement is not guaranteed.
• True vocation begins with listening to what feels aligned and real. Pursuing that path requires courage and a willingness to step into uncertainty.
• Perspectives shift when people talk face-to-face over time. Honest conversations nurture connection and soften division.
• Small acts of empathy can counter fear and polarization. Choosing to be a good neighbor creates space for hope and shared humanity.
• Film and conversation can spark new reflections and actions. Shared stories invite people to imagine a healthier and more connected future together.

"Maybe people want to be asked to do something hard, and when we get asked to do something hard, we're really proud of ourselves when we meet that bar." — Nicholas Ma

“The beauty of film is that it is this sort of shared reality. It's like empathy steroids... there's something really beautiful about what it does, and I think that's true with scripted film as well with documentary film.” — Nicholas Ma

"It's not about not taking a tumble, it's actually about knowing that you're going to be secure after you take the tumble..." — Nicholas Ma

About Nicholas Ma: Nicholas Ma is the President of Ernest Lyford LLC and an award-winning director, writer, and producer based in Brooklyn. He produced the acclaimed documentary WON’T YOU BE MY NEIGHBOR? (Sundance, 2018), about the life of Fred Rogers, and UNFINISHED BUSINESS on the WNBA (Tribeca, 2022). Most recently, he directed LEAP OF FAITH (Heartland, 2024) on the struggles of Christian pastors in Grand Rapids and MABEL (San Francisco, 2024), about a twelve-year-old girl whose best friend is a potted plant. He has created work for global brands, including Rolex and Apple. 

Before his career in film, he spent a decade in business and politics. On the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he covered global economic policy for Chairman John Kerry, from the recapitalization of the IMF, World Bank, and regional development banks to the design of the economic engine of the cap-and-trade bill. He also worked as a consultant at McKinsey & Company in New York and Shanghai, leading engagements with corporations, cities, and governments around the world, from Mayor Michael Bloomberg to the President of South Korea. He received his M.F.A. from NYU Tisch School of the Arts and is a graduate of Harvard College.

Connect with Nicholas Ma: 

Website: https://ernestlyford.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leapoffaithmovie/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Bringing people with varied life experiences into the same conversation leads to richer ideas and more durable outcomes built on shared understanding.
• A playful mindset softens conflict, increases openness, and supports meaningful connection even in areas of disagreement.
• Curiosity, listening, consensus-building, and problem-solving develop through repeated, structured conversations that build confidence and agency.
• Releasing adversarial mindsets reduces stereotypes, improves listening, and opens pathways for genuine cooperation.
• Tools like participation lotteries and civic assemblies teach and reveal how communities can make equitable, well-informed decisions together.
• Playful, pluralistic engagement models help communities shift from combative habits to collaborative imagination and shared purpose.

“[When you learn these skills] in a situation where you're talking to somebody you will probably never meet again … participants feel free to express themselves and learn how to listen to a new perspective, share their own perspective, and be able to disagree better and be able to find common ground." — Michelle Sobel

"If you are trying to solve problems, you don’t want people sitting around the table who’ve all got the same perspective." — Harry Gottlieb

"You really can’t overstate the importance of imagination, especially when you are trying to, as you were saying, imagine a better world." — Harry Gottlieb

Episode References:

• Unify America – https://unifyamerica.org/ 
• Unify Challenge – https://unifychallenge.com/ 
• Civic Gym – https://unifyamerica.org/civic-gym 
• Jackbox Games – https://www.jackboxgames.com/ 
• Montrose Civic Assembly – https://www.montrosecivicassembly.org/ 

About Michelle Sobel: Michelle Sobel is the President and co-founder of Unify America. She spent about 20 years improving patient experiences through digital health solutions as co-founder of Emmi Solutions and Analyte Health. Before that, she was part of the original Jellyvision creative team and helped launch the first You Don’t Know Jack games. She believes deeply in unifying Americans through dialogue, shared problem-solving, and building civic skills grounded in respect, curiosity, and imagination. 

About Harry Nathan Gottlieb: Harry Nathan Gottlieb is the founder of Unify America. For the last 25 years, he has focused on making learning and decision-making delightful (as the founder of Jellyvision) and creating unique games that bring people together (as the founder of Jackbox Games). He launched Unify America to apply his game-design thinking to civic life, encouraging democratic decision-making rooted in empathy, consensus, and playful collaboration. 

Connect with Michelle Sobel & Harry Gottlieb:

Website: https://www.unifyamerica.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/unifyamericaofficial, https://www.linkedin.com/in/harry-nathan-gottlieb-8091012/ , https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellesobel/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• The use of an Emergency Declaration for communities under attack is proving an effective model that other cities and neighborhoods can mimic.
• Systemic change happens when organizations transform structures, not just fundraising, and embrace long-term collective reimagining.
• Sustainable impact grows through rest, play, and joy, which strengthen resilience and reduce burnout.
• Equity thrives when leadership centers those most affected, creating authentic, enduring solutions.
• Abundance-driven fundraising fosters collaboration, celebrates community strengths, and shifts power toward shared prosperity.
• Purpose-driven urgency inspires bold, fearless action and daily solidarity.

"We have to demand that the systems change. We mean well in our work, but sometimes still perpetuate the same inequity we’re trying to address." — Shantel Suárez Ávila

"Shared leadership is hard, and that’s one reason we don’t see much of it. But it’s also beautiful—it challenges us to do better and question our assumptions." — Claire Groebner

Episode References: 

• Olivewood Gardens & Learning Center – https://olivewoodgardens.org/
• Cooking for Salud Program (Olivewood Gardens) – https://olivewoodgardens.org/our-programs/cooking-for-salud/
• San Diego Solidarity Network – https://www.sdsolidarity.com/
• Community-Centric Fundraising Movement – https://communitycentricfundraising.org/
• Chicano Park Museum and Cultural Center – https://chicanoparkmuseum.org/
• The Kitchenistas Documentary (YouTube trailer) – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YNKKlDA5Ls
• Waymo (Autonomous Driving Technology) – https://waymo.com/

About Shantel Suárez Ávila: Shantel Suárez Ávila is the Founder and Principal Strategist of Más Allá, a fundraising consulting firm advancing equity and justice. She has raised $50M+ for women-led and BIPOC-led organizations and began her career at Obama for America Headquarters in 2012. As co-steward of the Community-Centric Fundraising San Diego Chapter, Shantel helps organizations close funding gaps and reimagine philanthropy. An alumna of DePaul University (BA in Public Policy) and certified in Project and Change Management, she draws inspiration from her Mexican immigrant roots and enjoys yoga, gardening, and outdoor adventures with her husband and dogs in Escondido, California.

Connect with Shantel:

Website: https://www.sdsolidarity.com/ , https://www.masallaconsulting.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantel-su%C3%A1rez-%C3%A1vila/ 

About Claire Groebner: Claire Groebner is the Associate Director at Olivewood Gardens and Learning Center. She holds a B.A. in Sociology – Social Inequalities and Spanish Literature from UC San Diego and previously worked in various departments there. Inspired by her love of people, nature, and food, Claire became involved in the food justice and farm-to-table movements. In her free time, she enjoys traveling on foot, dancing, gardening, and cooking homegrown meals.

Connect with Claire:

Website: https://olivewoodgardens.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairegroebner/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Imagination and play keep creativity alive, helping leaders stay grounded in joy while tackling complex challenges.
• Purposeful career shifts can stay rooted in justice, aligning evolving roles with one’s values and heritage.
• Real equity work happens up close—through culturally competent, locally driven approaches that honor community leadership.
• Philanthropy grows stronger when it blends traditional grants with impact investments to expand lasting social good.
• Meaningful change begins with collective courage, from addressing the racial wealth gap to ensuring no one is left behind.

"Once you draw lines around something, you kind of lose the ability to think about what more it could be… We have to let ourselves be imaginative. We have to let ourselves think about what's possible." — Samra Haider

“There are so many systems of oppression embedded with racism… It's important to name why we're in this predicament and not just say it's luck of the draw." — Samra Haider

“I think potential is just about access to different things, and so everybody has that potential; it's more about giving everybody access to the same types of resources." — Samra Haider

Episode References: 

• Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation — https://www.grdodge.org/ 
• Center for Employment Opportunities (CEO) — https://ceoworks.org/ 
• Roberts Enterprise Development Fund (REDF) — https://redf.org/ 
• Community Development Financial Institutions (CDFI) — https://www.cdfifund.gov/ 
• United Way (Newark, NJ Chapter) — https://uwnewark.org/ 
• SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) — https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap 

About Samra Haider: Samra became President & Chief Executive Officer of the Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation in June 2025, bringing a deep commitment to equity and justice to advance the Foundation’s mission of closing New Jersey’s racial wealth gap. A New Jersey native, she draws on more than two decades of leadership in the nonprofit, philanthropy, finance, and strategy sectors to guide the Foundation into its next chapter of transformative impact. 

Prior to joining Dodge, Samra served as President of the Center for Employment Opportunities (CEO), where she led a nationwide expansion into more than 30 communities, built advanced training pathways, and helped thousands of people returning from incarceration secure good jobs and financial stability. Her earlier experience includes advancing job-focused social enterprises as Portfolio Director at REDF, leading technical assistance at Next Street Financial, and advising global organizations as a strategic consultant at Oliver Wyman. 

Connect with Samra:

Website:  https://www.grdodge.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/geraldine-r--dodge-foundation/posts/?feedView=all, https://www.linkedin.com/in/samra-haider/ 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Check out LOCL, the digital platform Bob created, that uses tech to get people together in person, weaving a social framework based on geography, trust, and shared interests
• Local digital platforms often fail because they’re fragmented and impersonal. Building stronger, interest-based micro-communities can make online engagement more meaningful. True innovation mirrors real-world connection.
• Mission-driven entrepreneurship prioritizes people over profit and fosters long-term impact. Transparent career growth and flexible work environments nurture genuine development. Meaningful change begins with aligned values.
• Technology should deepen human connection. Local, bottom-up solutions work best when they understand real community needs. When platforms focus on people, social impact follows naturally.
• The best ventures start with personal passion and evolve through listening to communities. Entrepreneurs must be adaptable and purpose-driven. Every successful product carries the heart of a movement.
• Empowering teams and honoring dynamic career paths creates sustainable growth. Great leaders design environments where people thrive together. The goal isn’t just efficiency, it’s shared human connection.

"Community will be more important than content in this next 10 years, and because of that, community builders will be the new influencers." — Bob Dalton

"You really tap into somebody's joy when you tap into the nerdiness part of who they are." — Bob Dalton

"If you can get people bought into a vision and a mission that they all feel really passionate about, once again, kind of sharing in a similar interest, it becomes fun." — Bob Dalton

About Bob Dalton: Bob Dalton is an entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and social designer working to reclaim human connection in the digital age. As the CEO & Founder of LOCL, he’s using technology to help people discover and engage with their local communities and events. Previously, as the founder of Sackcloth & Ashes, he donated hundreds of thousands of blankets to homeless shelters through a buy-one-give-one model. Named a Forbes Changemaker and CNN Champion of Change, Bob has traveled to 50+ cities, uncovering a core issue: local communities lack a digital space to connect and be seen.

Connect with Bob Dalton:

Website: locl.com 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobxdalton 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/locl.community/ 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Economic empowerment is essential to bridging inequality and building stronger, more inclusive communities.
• AI and automation are transforming work, but worker participation in shaping this transition is vital to ensure fairness and opportunity.
• Trust-based philanthropy creates greater impact by centering people, embracing flexibility, and building long-term collaboration with grantees.
• Regional partnerships in California demonstrate how locally tailored solutions can scale effectively and address diverse community needs.
• Advocacy and worker inclusion in AI policy discussions help safeguard equitable outcomes in a rapidly changing economy.
• Joy and playfulness sustain leaders, fostering resilience and purpose in the pursuit of social change.

“Jobs get eliminated, but new jobs get created, which is true, but the folks in the old jobs don't necessarily get the new jobs. And so we have this transition window within which we need to empower workers to have a say in how this happens.” — Don Howard

“If we want to bring our democracy to a healthier state, we need to make sure that the AI revolution doesn't create a whole new generation of folks who are struggling.” — Don Howard

“My encouragement to philanthropy is to focus. To think about people-centered philanthropy and to trust grantees.” — Don Howard

Episode References: 

• The Bridgespan Group — https://www.bridgespan.org/ 
• ACT UP (AIDS activist and advocacy group) — https://actupny.com/ 
• Warehouse Workers Resource Center — https://warehouseworkers.org/ 
• One Fair Wage — https://www.onefairwage.org/ 
• 22nd Century Initiative — https://www.22ci.org/ 
• Surdna Foundation — https://surdna.org/ 
• Public Policy Institute of California — https://www.ppic.org/ 
• California Jobs First — https://jobsfirst.ca.gov/ 
• Fresno Food Innovation Center (Build Back Better grant) — https://www.eda.gov/funding/programs/american-rescue-plan/build-back-better/finalists/central-valley-community-foundation 
• Inland Empire Growth & Opportunity (IEGO) — https://iegocollab.com/ 

About Don Howard: Don Howard is the President and CEO of The James Irvine Foundation, leading the foundation to a singular goal: ensuring all low-income workers in California have the power to advance economically. Don has extensive experience speaking in California and nationally on the imperative to create better jobs, empower low-wage workers, and create a more equitable economy.

Connect with Don Howard:

Website: https://www.irvine.org/ 

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/don-howard/ 

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-james-irvine-foundation/posts/?feedView=all 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Lorna Olivia McCormack founded Wool in School to reconnect Irish children with farming, textiles, and sustainability through hands-on creative learning.
• Her journey from community educator to Irish presidential candidate reflects a lifelong commitment to inclusion, accessibility, and cultural heritage.
• Lead with empathy and integrity, even when it challenges expectations—kindness and connection can be powerful forms of influence.
• Stay grounded in your values when navigating political, social, or organizational systems that pressure you to conform.
• Cultivate mindfulness and creativity in educational spaces to teach sustainability, emotional intelligence, and well-being simultaneously.
• Build local-global impact by adapting programs to regional resources instead of centralizing operations or exporting materials.
• Through her work and leadership, she continues to demonstrate how compassion, art, and activism can intersect to inspire meaningful, intergenerational change.

"I think knitting is culturally grounded in every country, and for the sake of our children to move them away from the games and the pressures on those games — this becomes an individual kind of activity but also a group activity." — Lorna Olivia McCormack

"There’s a thread connection between everybody… that invisible thread we don’t really know who we’ve talked to or what we might have said that will resonate with people." — Lorna Olivia McCormack

"Empathy and kindness, it’s so important when it comes to any kind of political leadership." — Lorna Olivia McCormack

Episode References: 

The Dandelion Project: https://www.thedandelionproject.us/

UN 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs): http://sdgs.un.org/goals

Skoll World Forum: https://skoll.org/skoll-world-forum/

About Lorna Olivia McCormack: Lorna McCormack, MSc, is the dynamic Founder and Director of Wool in School, an innovative educational initiative dedicated to integrating the fascinating world of wool into school curricula. Lorna has an MSc in Agricultural Innovation from the University of Galway, comes from a Social Care background, is fluent in Irish Sign Language, and is a professional Fibre Artist. As a Climate Leader and an  EU Climate Pact Ambassador, Lorna understands that every issue is a climate issue, including education and climate-smart skills.

Connect with Lorna: 

Website: https://www.woolinschool.com

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/woolinschool/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorna-mccormack-msc-9899b64b/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Lead with joy even in serious work—joy isn’t denial of hardship, it’s a form of resistance that keeps purpose sustainable.
• Reframe how you begin any project or initiative: shift from defining a problem statement to declaring a promise statement that names what’s possible.
• Show up and listen—real community progress starts by hearing people where they already are, not speaking for them.
• Build alliances beyond your usual circles; lasting impact often comes from unlikely partnerships grounded in shared values.
• Align your professional, personal, and civic life, as Kat Guillaume does, so your work and convictions never compete with each other.
• Let lived experience shape your leadership; Kat’s journey from generational poverty to elected office fuels her belief that policy must reflect real lives.
• Find purpose in the long arc of justice; as Kat says, “we were not built to be broken,” a reminder that faith and perseverance outlast any setback.

"Unlike vacant properties, unlike vacant structures, we were not built to be broken." — Kat Guillaume

"Go to meetings, knock on doors, have your meeting. If there's no meeting there, create one, get the voices, and then credit the voices." — Kat Guillaume

"My defiance to the state of the world is laughter. My defiance is yet, and still, I find reasons to laugh; yet and still, I find reasons to seek joy." — Kat Guillaume

About Kat Guillaume: Kathleen Jeanette Guillaume-Delemar is the President and CEO of the Center for Community Progress. With a deep personal connection to the harm vacant properties cause a community – and the healing that comes from transforming them – Guillaume-Delemar has focused her career on addressing injustice, working on issues including community revitalization, affordable housing, and combating homelessness. Guillaume-Delemar has been a leader on the Glenarden Housing Authority, a commissioner on the Prince George’s County Affordable Housing Commission, and later made history when she became the first and only Afro-Caribbean, Afro-Latina, Haitian American to be elected to the City Council of Glenarden, Maryland.

Connect with Kat: 

Website: https://communityprogress.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bklyn_kat

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kat-guillaume-delemar/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CenterForCommunityProgress/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Murmuration is the phenomenon of birds flying in formation, each influencing the seven birds around them, and thus a great metaphor for individual acts and community organizing.
• Emma’s group empowers local organizations with data-driven insights, civic engagement tools, and strategies to strengthen participation.
• Every community is unique, but local conversations foster and spread shared solutions that cut through political divides.
• Murmuration’s Civic Pulse program surveys 500 people daily to capture community concerns and highlight national trends in hope and engagement.
• Small, tangible wins at the local level—like securing a stop sign near a school—can unlock momentum for larger systemic change.
• Philanthropy must move beyond one-off victories to invest in long-term civic infrastructure that sustains progress.
• Democracy depends on active participation, and when people engage locally, they build resilience against systemic threats.

"If our democracy is under threat, participate in it, because the more of us that are participating, the less under threat it is." — Emma Bloomberg

"Those who control the data, control the systems, control the outcomes, and what we’re trying to do is democratize that." — Emma Bloomberg

"One of the reasons [progress] slips away is that there isn’t that investment in the broader community ecosystem." — Emma Bloomberg

Episode References: 

Deep South Today: https://deepsouthtoday.org/

Civic Pulse (Murmuration program): https://insightsbymurmuration.substack.com/p/about-civic-pulse

About Emma Bloomberg: Emma Bloomberg is the founder and CEO of Murmuration, a civic engagement organization she launched in 2014 to equip community-based groups with the data, tools, and strategies needed to reduce inequality and strengthen democracy. Previously, she served as chief of staff and senior planning officer at the Robin Hood Foundation, where she worked to fight poverty in New York City. She sits on the boards of the Bloomberg Family Foundation, KIPP Foundation, New Classrooms, and Leadership for Educational Equity, and co-leads the Emma and Georgina Bloomberg Foundation, which supports education and animal rights initiatives. A longtime advocate for systemic change through civic participation, she has also advised the Mayoral Leadership in Education Network at Harvard Kennedy School and chaired the Stand for Children Leadership Center.

Connect with Emma: 

Website: https://murmuration.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-bloomberg-07a52215/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this provocative episode about how fun and games can be used for serious purposes, the CEO of Game Genius shares how he transforms play into a catalyst for learning, connection, and systems change. Listeners are invited to discover how games can open new ways of seeing, strengthen communities, and bring joy into even the most serious work. It’s a great reminder that play is not just a pastime, but a powerful force for change.

Key Takeaways:

• Peter Williamson shifted from a professional golf career to founding Game Genius and Barometer XP, building a mission around play for good.
• He draws from his background in family philanthropy, education, and systems thinking to design games that create real-world impact.
• His work demonstrates how play can act as a bridge, fostering connection and resilience even in times of social division.
• Treat play as philanthropy by bringing joy, awareness, and connection into your community work.
• Start with existing games—adapt classics like Bridge, Scrabble, or Monopoly, “re-skin” a game everyone knows, instead of reinventing from scratch. This increases options and access.
• Focus on transferable skills when using play (like communication, adaptability, collaboration) rather than only teaching content.
• Apply a systems lens through play—expose yourself and your teams to different games as a way to recognize, question, and improve the systems you live and work in.

"I’ve always thought of play as another form of philanthropy—how can you give fun, awareness-building moments and play to a community to help them understand why best connection is important." — Peter Williamson

"There’s a kind of magical moment with play where when people have that light bulb flip, and I’ve had that enough times myself, where I’m like, oh, if I can do that for other people, that would be really fun." — Peter Williamson

"You could create the greatest game in the world, but if a nonprofit doesn’t know how to use it, then it kind of sits on the shelf behind them as maybe a tool they bring out once a year." — Peter Williamson

Episode References: 

Bill of Rights Institute: https://billofrightsinstitute.org/

Wingspan (board game by Elizabeth Hargrave): https://stonemaiergames.com/games/wingspan/

Merlin Bird ID App: https://merlin.allaboutbirds.org/

About Peter Williamson: Peter Williamson is a professional golfer turned entrepreneur who uses his deep knowledge of games, design, and philanthropy to catalyze change in communities. He co-founded a venture called Barometer XP, which leverages the power of play to help people thrive at work. He also leads a creative capacity nonprofit called Game Genius, co-founded a local giving circle for early to mid-career professionals, and participates on several nonprofit boards, including a 6-generation family foundation. Peter has a BA in Studio Art and Geography from Dartmouth College. He lives in Ellicott City, MD, with his wife and 15-month-old son.

Connect with Peter: 

Website: https://www.gamegenius.org & https://www.barometerxp.com

Email: peter@gamegenius.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterwilliamson23 & https://www.linkedin.com/company/gamegenius & https://www.linkedin.com/company/barometerxp

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Nonprofits are powerful economic engines that generate $1.4 trillion in impact and employ 12.5 million people, yet they are often undervalued.
• Many nonprofits face systemic challenges like delayed government and philanthropic payments that force them to front costs without timely reimbursement.
• Aisha argues nonprofits must be funded at their full cost to prevent cycles of scarcity, patchwork budgets, and staff burnout.
• Nonprofit leaders are urged to clearly communicate both the financial realities and the social impact of their work to inspire changes in funder practices.
• Advocacy is core work at Nonprofit Finance Fund for addressing inequities in funding systems and promoting trust-based philanthropy.
• Aisha’s personal journey was shaped by seeing how capital could be co-designed with communities for social good.
• Joy and playfulness are essential for resilience in leadership, and for Aisha, they come from her nine grandchildren, her ministry, and ice cream rituals.

"Nonprofits are thought of as charity, and it is a charitable sector, but it is not about charity. Nonprofits are economic engines, and we see it with employment. We see it with contribution to the tax base." — Aisha Benson

"Demand is on the rise, and at the same time, resources are disappearing. And I’m going to say resources are being stolen away and redistributed to those with wealth and power." — Aisha Benson

"Nonprofits are too often treated as a stepchild instead of a partner." — Aisha Benson

Episode References: 

State of the Nonprofit Sector Survey: https://nff.org/learn/survey

Rusty Stahl: Defending Civil Society in a Time of Political Threats: https://www.impactfullinc.com/playfull-podcast/rusty-stahl

About Aisha Benson: Aisha Benson is a community development finance leader with over 30 years in banking and Community Development Financial Institutions (CDFIs). She is CEO of Nonprofit Finance Fund, a CDFI lender, consultant, and advocate advancing nonprofits to build community wealth and well-being.

She previously served as COO at TruFund Financial Services, leading lending, tax credit deployment, and advisory programs, and has held finance roles at Carver Federal Savings, Banco Popular, and JPMorgan Chase. Over her career, she has implemented numerous multimillion-dollar capital access, guaranty, and grant programs.

Aisha serves on boards including OFN, the NMTC Coalition, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York’s Community Advisory Group, and the Carsey Center for Impact Finance. She earned her B.A. in Psychology, Cum Laude, from Columbia University and a certificate in Social Impact Management and Leadership from the Institute for Nonprofit Practice.

Connect with Aisha: 

Website: https://nff.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aisha-benson-3a198227/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Reflect on your organization’s history and take responsibility for repairing harm, as the Museum of Us has done in confronting its colonial legacy.
• The Museum of Us shifted from being known as “Grandma’s attic” to becoming a leader in anti-racist and decolonial museum practices.
• When backlash comes, use it as an opportunity to clarify what your organization stands for instead of retreating.
• Micah’s personal experiences of privilege and proximity to immigrant communities shaped his lifelong awareness of justice and equity.
• Create a culture of care in your workplace where people can bring their full selves and thrive over the long term.
• Philanthropy must examine the origins of wealth and direct resources toward repairing the communities harmed in the process of its accumulation.
• Balance serious change work with intentional play, joy, and rest to sustain energy for yourself and your team.

"Most wealth didn’t just fall from the sky in a way that you know does not have its own history... really focusing on using those monies to make it right by those communities is something that is difficult for philanthropists and philanthropic organizations to think about... So I think continuing down that path is critically important." — Micah Parzen

"We began to focus on contemporary issues that are sort of vexing to you know, our society and our community, whether it's race, immigration, indigenous, lived experience... slowly but surely, we transformed [the museum] into a very different place." — Micah Parzen

"We spend as much time on an organizational cultural perspective, and creating a culture of care, both among our team members and our board, and creating a space where people feel like they are truly welcome and belong and can bring their whole selves to work." — Micah Parzen

Episode References: 

Race: Power, Resistance & Change - Coming Fall 2025: https://museumofus.org/exhibits/race-power-resistance-change

About Micah Parzen: Micah Parzen is a nonprofit leader, anthropologist, and attorney who has served as CEO of the Museum of Us since 2010, focusing on anti-racist and decolonial museum practices and sharing them to create a ripple effect in the field. He was board chair of the Balboa Park Cultural Partnership from 2020 to 2024 and has also served on several nonprofit boards. He holds degrees in anthropology and law from UC Berkeley, Case Western Reserve, and UC Davis, and is regularly invited to speak nationally and internationally about the Museum of Us’ journey.

Connect with Micah: 

Website: https://museumofus.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/micah-parzen-b683898/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Investment capital dwarfs philanthropic dollars, with $70 trillion circulating in markets compared to $70 billion in philanthropy, highlighting the need to influence where the real resources are.
• Integrate gender-lens investing into your strategy by applying rigorous screens that lead to stronger company performance—such as parental leave policies, leadership development for women of color, and menopause policies.
• Build play and imagination into leadership and team culture through intentional retreats or exercises that strengthen trust, collaboration, and innovation.
• Prioritize relationship-building across silos—climate, philanthropy, racial justice, private sector—to unlock new opportunities for impact and collective power.
• Support proximate leaders and grassroots organizations with long-term funding rather than short-term grants, recognizing that transformational change requires decades of investment.
• In spite of operating on less than $20,000 annually, women-led grassroots organizations are the most powerful drivers of systemic, generational change.
• People-powered movements demonstrate persistence through setbacks and continuity across generations to secure lasting progress.

"The social impact sector is just on a cliff. And so I definitely feel that sense of urgency, I would say, and I'm hungry for, like, the boldness that the moment requires." — Jess Tomlin

"Having the ability to be in a space of imagination is freeing, and it is joyful. And in this moment in time when there does not feel like a lot of freedom or a lot of joy, what a gift that is to be able to give ourselves permission to imagine." — Jess Tomlin

"I really believe that I want to master relationship-building as a tool and a strategy to help us bust the silos that we all find ourselves in right now." — Jess Tomlin

About Jess Tomlin: Jess Tomlin is a social entrepreneur who has unleashed more than $1 billion in new funding for human rights movements, working with politicians, philanthropists, business leaders, and activists worldwide.

As CEO of the Equality Fund, she has moved $100 million to 1,000 human rights organizations in 100 countries and invested $300 million in women-built and women-led high-impact businesses—all within a 100% gender-aligned portfolio.

She has worked across Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, and Asia, and previously led a UN program expanding education for over half a million Palestinian refugees in Jordan, the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, and Syria.

Connect with Jess: 

Website: https://equalityfund.ca/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/equalityfund/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-tomlin-93070753 & https://www.linkedin.com/company/equalityfund

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Hold philanthropic institutions accountable for maintaining race-explicit grantmaking despite legal and political pressures.
• Use tools like risk assessments and legal landscape analyses to guide courageous, compliant decisions.
• Support organizations under attack through defense funds and collective resilience strategies.
• Normalize conversations about risk appetite so decisions align with values and legacy, not fear.
• Persistent funding inequities affecting Native, Black, Latinx, and AAPI communities call for intentional, lasting corrective action.
• Build collaborative coalitions across philanthropic-serving organizations to withstand hostile legal and political environments.
• Protect joy, play, and cultural celebration as practices of resistance that sustain movements and community connection. 

"Joy and play are absolute acts of resistance, because if not, we're going to be burnt out, we're going to be hopeless." — Jazmin Chavez

"What we wanted to help the field [philanthropic sector] do was to move from this kind of space of being risk-averse to having more of a tolerance or an appetite for risk, and that's what the risk assessment tool is looking at" — E. Bomani Johnson

"You cannot create a better world while ignoring the inequities that exist in our community." — Lyle Matthew Kan

"We're obviously trying to get to specific outcomes and specific kinds of influence, but it's also about making sure that we all really understand each other's communities." — Erik Stegman

About the READI Group Leaders:

• Jazmin Chavez is the Vice President of Movement Building & Infrastructure at Hispanics in Philanthropy, leading teams, fundraising, and equity strategies for Latinx communities [LinkedIn].
• E. Bomani Johnson is the Senior Director of Strategic Initiatives at the Association of Black Foundation Executives (ABFE), advancing race-explicit grantmaking and funding for Black-led organizations [LinkedIn].
• Lyle Matthew Kan is the Interim President and Chief Executive Officer of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in Philanthropy (AAPIP), recognized for advancing racial and LGBTQ+ equity [LinkedIn].
• Erik Stegman is the Chief Executive Officer of Native Americans in Philanthropy (NAP), driving investment in tribal communities after leadership roles in policy and philanthropy [LinkedIn].

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Build a giving circle by starting small with a few friends or colleagues around a Zoom or kitchen table.
• Technology platforms like Grapevine reduce the administrative burden of collective giving so energy can stay focused on impact.
• Treat rest, joy, and play as essential elements of activism rather than luxuries, recognizing them as tools of resilience and liberation.
• Strengthen your sense of belonging and confidence in creating change by engaging in collaborative philanthropy rather than going it alone.
• Think beyond immediate crises by imagining long-term solutions and the future you want to build, then align your role in the social change ecosystem accordingly.
• Approach giving circles or community philanthropy with flexibility—whether raising $25 or millions.
• Rotate leadership and share responsibility in groups to prevent burnout and sustain momentum over time.
• Invest in cultural storytelling and history as forms of resistance to erasure, ensuring that marginalized voices are preserved and amplified.

"Where you start today is not where you will end up. It’s a journey." — Emily Rasmussen

"There’s a divine right to rest. There’s a human right to rest." — Shige Sakurai

"There are ways of engaging that can actually build us up, and often it’s in community when that happens." — Emily Rasmussen

Episode References: 

• Edgar Villanueva and Decolonizing Wealth Project: https://www.decolonizingwealth.com/
• Rest is Resistance by Tricia Hersey: https://bookshop.org/p/books/rest-is-resistance-a-manifesto-tricia-hersey/18255493?ean=9780316365215&next=t
• Social Change Now by Deepa Iyer: https://bookshop.org/p/books/social-change-now-a-guide-for-reflection-and-connection-deepa-iyer/21526146
• The Big We by Hali Lee: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-big-we-hali-lee/21742358?ean=9781638931515
• Johnson Center for Philanthropy research on giving circles: https://johnsoncenter.org/collection/giving-circles/
• Learn Your Play Personalities Quiz: https://nifplay.org/what-is-play/play-personalities/

About Emily Rasmussen and Shige Sakurai:

Emily Rasmussen brings nearly 15 years of impact finance, nonprofit leadership, and social enterprise experience to Grapevine, building on a background that includes leading major arts initiatives, developing microfinance programs in India, and performing with Pacific Northwest Ballet, and she holds a B.A. from Occidental College and an MBA from Harvard Business School. [Website | LinkedIn]

Shige Sakurai is a senior consultant and executive leader in cultural transformation, equity, and organizational change, serving as senior executive for equity, belonging, and change at the Unitarian Universalist Association, teaching at American University, and leading national and international advocacy as founder of International Pronouns Day and the first person in the U.S. to receive a nonbinary X-marker driver’s license. [Website]

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Bravery today involves maintaining moral clarity while acknowledging the emotional and ideological diversity of others' lived realities.
• Calling people in creatively, rather than calling them out, is essential to radical collaboration and sustaining civic engagement.
• The Horizons Project’s work around asset-framing moves  beyond promoting counter-narratives to shifting the terrain entirely—e.g., moving from “no one is illegal” to “everybody belongs.”
• Everyday Democracy’s arts and democracy initiative uses art as a conduit for dialogue and civic imagination, notably through ambitious partnerships, like the one at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts.
• Julia Roig explains “relational infrastructure” and why shared storytelling is as vital as traditional strategy and action planning for organizers.
• Events like the “Unite for Vets” rally model how intersectional coalitions—from labor to arts—can converge in joyful, bipartisan solidarity, picking up on a common PlayFull podcast theme around “finding the 3rd thing” that can unite.
• Merle shares the importance of “pivoting on purpose” in activism, which reflects a martial arts principle from Capoeira, where resistance is dialogical and embodied.
• The idea that hope cannot yet be physically located in the brain becomes a metaphor for expanding collective radical imagination.
• Leaders are encouraged to "get in where you fit in" and contribute to movement work in aligned, accountable, and sustaining ways—whether through strategy, storytelling, protest, or feeding people.

"Bravery is stepping into, like, the inherent tensions of how change is going to happen in this moment." — Julia Roig

"We get bound by our own purity politic or ideological purity that doesn't allow us to fully cross bridges, to fully be in our humanity." — Merle McGee

"We don’t need to reinforce the narrative of people being illegal by being oppositional... shift the narrative terrain—say something like, everybody belongs." — Julia Roig

Episode References: 

Adrienne Maree Brown: https://adriennemareebrown.net/

Boston MFA exhibit: https://everyday-democracy.org/arts-mfa/

About Julia Roig & Merle McGee:

• Merle McGee is President & CEO of Everyday Democracy, with 25+ years fighting for justice across racial, gender, and economic lines. [LinkedIn]
• Julia Roig is the Founder & Chief Network Weaver at The Horizons Project, promoting peace, justice, and democracy through narrative and restorative practices. [LinkedIn]

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Authoritarianism seeks to erode our humanity and our ability to see it in others, making it essential to nurture connection, creativity, and joy as acts of resistance.
• Justice work is not a sprint, nor is it a marathon. It’s a relay race where we each take turns leading, pacing, practicing, and resting.
• Joy, play, and artistic expression are not luxuries but strategic and necessary tools for sustaining energy and morale in long-term social change efforts.
• Creative protests, from clowns confronting klansmen to stalled motorcades, can disarm fear and dismantle the perceived power of oppressive forces.
• Juneteenth, as well as other movement moments, doesn’t just commemorate a historic moment; it’s a beginning, and an active practice of living in the fullness of liberation and humanity.
• The urgency of current threats to democracy calls for philanthropic institutions to release their reserves now and move resources directly to communities at risk. The rainy day is here.
• Building coordinated, cross-sector philanthropic action is critical to resisting orchestrated attacks on civil society and protecting the foundation of democracy.

"Authoritarianism, whether through policy, whether through physical intimidation, whether through economy, whatever tools they pick up, the goal is to strip us of our humanity and to make us forget the humanity of one another." — Eric K. Ward

"Sometimes we forget that pranking … and art that makes us laugh can take away the power of the moment." — Eric K. Ward

"Juneteenth… wasn’t an endpoint. The celebration was about the starting point of practicing and embracing your right to be fully human." — Eric K. Ward

Episode References: 

White with Fear (2024) Documentary: https://www.whitewithfear.com/

Juneteenth Reminds Us That the Fight for Freedom Is Far From Over by Eric K. Ward: https://time.com/7295731/juneteenth-fight-for-freedom/

About Eric K. Ward: Eric K. Ward is the Executive Vice President of Race Forward and a Senior Fellow with the Southern Poverty Law Center. A recipient of the Civil Courage Prize, he has been active in philanthropy since the early 1990s, from McKenzie River Gathering to present board roles at Proteus Fund and NCRP. Eric is also a co-producer of the documentary “White With Fear” and a longtime strategist at the intersection of racial justice, democracy, and inclusion. 

Connect with Eric: 

Website: http://raceforward.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekwraceforward

Facing Race Conference: https://www.raceforward.org/training-and-events/facing-race-conference

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Rest isn’t abandoning responsibility, but reimagining work through passion and presence instead of burnout.
• AI-generated gospel music and video in creative activism can deeply engage communities and make civic action culturally resonant.
• Staying true to your mission amid systemic resistance is both courageous and a form of strategic, long-term resistance.
• Playfulness and humor are essential tools that boost morale, build connections, and sustain leadership through uncertainty.
• Racial equity investing requires a steadfast commitment to closing wealth gaps and uplifting historically underfunded communities.
• Rest, as emphasized by Tricia Hersey and Octavia Raheem, fuels imagination, clarity, and creativity vital to visionary change.
• Joy often emerges from struggle, reminding us that celebration and resistance can powerfully coexist in dark times.
• Prioritizing joy, laughter, and play with loved ones becomes a vital wellspring of strength during challenging moments.

"We have to be imaginative to get to the future that we want to see." — Jeanine Abrams McLean

"Rest is not to stop... it really is just to do the things that you're incredibly passionate about." — Latanya Mapp

"Take naps. Take a sabbatical, take that time away, because life will keep life-ing all the time, and I just really want to encourage people to just take a break from things." — Lisha Bell

Episode References: 

• Rest is Sacred by Octavia Raheem: https://www.octaviaraheem.com/rest-is-sacred
• Rest is Resistance by Tricia Hersey: https://bookshop.org/p/books/rest-is-resistance-a-manifesto-tricia-hersey/18255493?ean=9780316365215&next=t
• The Everyday Feminist by Latanya Mapp: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-everyday-feminist-the-key-to-sustainable-social-impact-driving-movements-we-need-now-more-than-ever-latanya-mapp-frett/18644847
• Imagination: A Manifesto by Ruha Benjamin: https://bookshop.org/p/books/imagination-a-manifesto-ruha-benjamin/20074537

About our Changemakers:

• Jeanine Abrams McLean is the President of Fair Count, where she leads national efforts to ensure equitable census participation, redistricting, and year-round civic engagement. Drawing from her previous experience as a scientist at the CDC's STD prevention lab, she combines data, culture, and community power to strengthen democratic participation. [LinkedIn]
• Latanya Mapp is a global philanthropy leader and former U.S. Foreign Service Officer with decades of experience in international development. Currently in a period of professional reset, she serves on the boards of Chanel and Luminate, teaches at Columbia University, and continues to coach and support professionals navigating career transitions. [LinkedIn]
• Lisha Bell is a seasoned tech innovator and economic justice advocate who leads PayPal Ventures’ $100M Economic Opportunity Fund, co-hosts the Sisters with Ventures podcast, and champions capital access for underrepresented founders through investments, storytelling, and ecosystem-building. [LinkedIn]

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Rusty Stahl calls for SOS (Staff Operating Support) grants that prioritize nonprofit operating expenses, particularly workforce support.
• The inclusion of HR 9495 in a tax bill was a calculated threat to the nonprofit sector's First Amendment rights and 501(c)(3) status.
• Despite long-standing, widespread impact, the nonprofit sector is left out of public narratives—even though it has reliably delivered critical services on behalf of the government for centuries.
• Rusty emphasizes that the government relies on nonprofits for the social safety net and shouldn’t threaten their existence while outsourcing services to them.
• Fund the People promotes “Talent Justice” to ensure racial, economic, and generational equity in nonprofit career paths.
• Most foundation grants don't align with actual nonprofit cost structures, often underfunding essential staffing needs.
• Nonprofits and funders must use their legal rights to advocate or risk losing those rights entirely in the current climate.
• Fund the People has restructured much of its work, including 50% of its podcast content, to focus on “Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy,” providing biweekly action updates useful to those on the ground doing the work.

"If we don’t use our rights, we lose our rights." — Rusty Stahl

"[Nonprofits] impact all parts of our lives. But it's so embedded in our society that it's almost invisible, and we don't recognize that we have this amazing resource and asset in our society." — Rusty Stahl

"There’s no guarantee things are going to be better just because you torch them." — Rusty Stahl

Episode References: 

H.R.9495 - Stop Terror-Financing and Tax Penalties on American Hostages Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/9495

About Rusty Stahl: Rusty Stahl is the Founder, President & CEO of Fund the People. He launched the organization in 2014 with the support of The Kresge Foundation. In this capacity, Rusty stewards Fund the People’s vision and mission, generates financial investments and organizational partnerships, supports the Advisory Council, manages staff and consultants, and guides the development of programs and products. Previously, Stahl was a Visiting Fellow in Residence at NYU’s Wagner School, where—with support from the Tides Foundation—he conducted research, writing, teaching, and presentations that laid the groundwork for Fund the People. Earlier in his career, he served as Founding Executive Director of Emerging Practitioners in Philanthropy (EPIP), a Program Associate at the Ford Foundation, and held various leadership roles across the sector. Stahl holds an M.A. in Philanthropic Studies from Indiana University, a B.A. from George Washington University, and lives in Beacon, NY, with his wife and two daughters.

Connect with Rusty: 

Website: https://fundthepeople.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rustystahl/

Twitter: https://x.com/rustystahl

Fund the People Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fund-the-people-a-podcast-with-rusty-stahl/id1531813289

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Funders and community leaders can drive the revitalization of civic engagement by supporting nonprofit local newsrooms that prioritize sustainability and local accountability.
• Prioritize building business and operational capacity—along with editorial excellence—when investing in media, to ensure long-term viability of local journalism.
• Community listening, surveys, and focus groups ensure that local news initiatives align content with community needs.
• Resilient news organizations combine multiple revenue streams—reader support, advertising, events, and philanthropy—to ensure their strength and independence.
• Nonprofit newsrooms can integrate stories of local joy, innovation, and creativity to deepen community connection and counter the dominance of negative headlines.
• Independent news outlets can encourage collaborative models—like content sharing and co-publishing—to maximize impact without duplicating efforts.
• Recognize and use local journalism as a tool to reduce polarization, strengthen middle-ring social ties, and elevate issue-based civic discourse beyond party lines.

"We need to be really not precious about the format... we need to be really creative about how we’re getting news and information into people’s hands." — Sarabeth Berman

"The decline of local news is making us less civically engaged... and communities without local news are far more polarized." — Sarabeth Berman

"People know that there’s really good things happening in their community, but they only read about the bad things." — Sarabeth Berman

Episode References: 

AJPalooza 2025: https://www.theajp.org/ajpalooza25/

Signal Ohio: https://signalohio.org/

Spotlight PA: https://www.spotlightpa.org/

The Marshall Project: https://www.themarshallproject.org/

Verite News: https://veritenews.org/

Press Forward: https://www.pressforward.news/

Does Local News Reduce Polarization? by Joshua P. Darr: https://www.carnegie.org/our-work/article/does-local-news-reduce-polarization/

The Desert Sun: https://www.desertsun.com/

We Are Family: https://www.wearefamilydc.org/

About Sarabeth Berman: Sarabeth Berman is the Chief Executive Officer of the American Journalism Project (AJP), the first venture philanthropy dedicated to local news. AJP makes grants to nonprofit local news organizations at every stage, supporting the successful launch of new enterprises and partnering with existing newsrooms to sustain their businesses and grow their newsrooms. Since its launch in 2019, AJP has raised over $200M and built a portfolio of 50 nonprofit local organizations and growing, from Puerto Rico to Mississippi to Montana. In 2023, American Journalism Project was named one of Fast Company’s Most Innovative Companies.

Connect with Sarabeth: 

Website: https://www.theajp.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/weareajp/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarabeth-berman-a779522b & https://www.linkedin.com/company/theajp/

Twitter: https://x.com/JournalismProj

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Nonprofit leaders should regularly assess whether their language still reflects their mission and audience; outdated or overly cautious terms can unintentionally undermine trust.
• Rather than avoiding sensitive language entirely, organizations can develop customized communication frameworks to navigate risk while staying aligned with their values.
• Consulting partnerships should be seen as opportunities for growth, where trusted advisors help uncover blind spots and introduce bold, necessary shifts in messaging.
• Leaders must consider not just what they say, but when and how they say it—sometimes strategic silence protects both people and progress.
• Integrating joy, humor, and creativity into work environments—such as implementing a team “Bucket List Fund” or encouraging personal play—supports team resilience and authentic leadership.
• Language strategy isn't about optics; it’s about reinforcing accountability to the people you serve and maintaining alignment with long-term equity goals.
• How stand-up comedy and art-collecting can be grounding practices that reconnect changemakers with purpose and presence.

"Fun is important. I’ve really tried to make [it] a source of resistance in my life." — Vanessa Wakeman

"Joy is really important to me, and so I want to make sure that I am not letting it happen, or hoping that by happenstance something joyful happens. I want to be in control of it." — Vanessa Wakeman

Episode References: 

The Lexicon Project®: https://www.thewakemanagency.com/expertise/communications-audits/

Learn Your Play Personalities Quiz: https://nifplay.org/what-is-play/play-personalities/

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn: https://bookshop.org/p/books/ishmael-daniel-quinn/11423360

Crashing (TV series): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5037914/

About Vanessa Wakeman: Vanessa is the founder and CEO of The Wakeman Agency, a trusted advisor to nonprofit organizations and socially responsible companies globally. An accomplished strategist focused on leveraging communications in pursuit of systemic justice, Vanessa has led engagements across numerous social issues, including healthcare, education, arts, civil rights, philanthropy, social innovation, economic mobility, children’s advocacy, animal rights, environmental, and technology sectors, amongst others. An inductee to PRWeek's Hall of Femme, noted as one of the 100 Most Influential Black Leaders in New York on City & State's Black Power List, celebrated as a Champion of PR by PRWeek and named one of 50 Game Changers of PR by PR News. Vanessa is a respected leader in the social change communications space.

Connect with Vanessa: 

Website: https://thewakemanagency.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessawakeman

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Build teams intentionally around those historically excluded from power; let them demonstrate their capacity to lead complex, high-stakes work.
• Embed humor into your culture and contracts as a form of resilience and connection in emotionally demanding environments.
• Create intentional spaces—emotional, virtual, or physical—for people to process, connect, and develop coping strategies in challenging times.
• Anchor every action in a clear strategy, ensuring your tactics serve long-term goals rather than concern about near-term reactions.
• Speak openly about your faith if it fuels your justice work, and bridge divides by engaging faith communities as vital allies in progressive change.
• Focus less on debates about shifting language and more on why those words matter to you and what results you're striving to achieve.
• Allow yourself or others to step back or pause when needed, recognizing rest as essential to long-term impact.
• Treat joy, music, and play not as luxuries but as powerful tools that restore energy, deepen purpose, and sustain your commitment to justice.

"If you're a person of faith, scream it, particularly on the left… get right with people of faith. They are going to be the wedge … to set us free." — Robert Raben

"[Our movements] are under assault again, but we have always been under assault. That's what conservatives do, and [regardless] we, who now call ourselves progressives, keep moving forward." — Robert Raben

"Humor, to me… is a mark of resilience." — Robert Raben

About Robert Raben: Robert Raben is a strategist’s strategist on a lifelong mission to inject humanity, common sense, equity, and justice into the fabric of American politics and culture. He is the president and founder of Raben, a mission-driven national public affairs and strategic communications firm committed to making connections, solving problems, and inspiring change across the corporate, nonprofit, and government sectors. Beyond his work, Robert has served on the boards of The Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, NRDC, the UnidosUS Action Fund, President Barack Obama’s My Brother’s Keeper Alliance, the Mississippi Center for Justice, and others. Robert previously served as assistant attorney general under President Bill Clinton. Robert was the first openly gay man to receive Senate confirmation and to lead a law enforcement agency. He also served as counsel to U.S. Rep. Barney Frank and Democratic counsel for two subcommittees of the House Judiciary Committee. The Miami native is a graduate of the Wharton School and New York University Law School.

Episode References: 

I Love the Lord; He Heard My Cry: https://open.spotify.com/track/6I0J0pZkuCmastxfvgzdyZ?si=4d3d48e30a6045a8

I've Got the Joy, Joy, Joy Down in My Heart: https://open.spotify.com/track/1ubwRHcUhPJcpiG6QvAMJt?si=6e65962b53574295

Oh Happy Day: https://open.spotify.com/track/2CvxJaYyNX6xVhpIhqU02B?si=33af8ea330024792

Connect with Robert: 

Website: https://www.raben.co/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robert.raben/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-raben-11304a73

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robert.raben/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• The LGBTQ+ movement has always blended resistance with celebration, using protest as a form of joyful defiance rather than just rage.
• Pride is still fundamentally a march and a protest, not just a parade or party, and remains rooted in the ongoing fight for full liberation.
• Many LGBTQ+ nonprofits are under threat from political pressure and reduced corporate support, increasing the urgency for direct community donations.
• Belonging is a human right, not something to be earned, and systemic discrimination often aims to strip people of that sense of belonging.
• Storytelling is a crucial way to preserve LGBTQ+ history, especially as political and cultural forces try to erase or distort it.
• Joy, love, and play are not breaks from justice work but vital tools for sustainability and cultural change within activism.
• Intersectional solidarity across marginalized communities strengthens all movements and counters efforts to divide and isolate struggles. The LGBTQ+ movement gives us an example of what that looks like and how powerful it can be.
• The history of LGBTQ+ philanthropy and activism stretches far before Stonewall and includes key figures whose legacies risk being forgotten without intentional preservation.

"Belonging is a right that people have, and when we feel like we can belong in spaces, it tells us something is systemically changed." — Eric Ward

"I walk into those spaces because of who I am, so I’m not trying to dress that up or change that when I walk into that room." — Radhy Miranda

"Tell an LGBTQ person you love them, you see them, that you support them, that you’re an ally… now is the time to stand up for trans communities." — Lyle Matthew Kan

Episode References:

• “White with Fear” Documentary: https://www.whitewithfear.com/ 
• Career Cheat Code Podcast with Radhy Miranda: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/career-cheat-code/id1469909678
• The American LGBTQ+ Museum: https://americanlgbtqmuseum.org/
• Funders for LGBTQ Issues: https://lgbtfunders.org/
• Stonewall Community Foundation: https://www.stonewallfoundation.org/

About our Changemakers:

• Eric Ward is a nationally recognized expert on authoritarianism, hate violence, and inclusive democracy, currently Executive Vice President at Race Forward and Senior Fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, with over 30 years of leadership in civil rights organizing, philanthropy, and cultural strategy. [LinkedIn]
• Radhy Miranda is an equity strategist and Principal at Mars Consulting Partners, where he leverages experience across philanthropy, government, and academia to design cross-sector initiatives that advance economic mobility and equitable community development. [LinkedIn]
• Lyle Matthew Kan is a leader in social justice philanthropy and Interim President & CEO of Asian Americans/Pacific Islanders in Philanthropy, known for advancing racial, LGBTQ+, and AAPI equity through research, field leadership, and collaborative grantmaking. He was recently named by Inside Philanthropy as one of "Philanthropy's Most Powerful People Under 40." [LinkedIn]

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Grantees should confidently ask for what they truly need—even if it's far beyond past funding—pushing foundations to confront their moral responsibility.
• Foundation leaders must stop protecting endowments and start using those assets now to defend and sustain civil society.
• Boards and donors should adopt clear sunset strategies, ending the default assumption that foundations must exist forever.
• Philanthropy professionals can reclaim wellbeing through consistent creative habits—Glen’s early morning guitar practice offers one example.
• Philanthropy’s greatest failure isn’t imagination, it’s execution—many bold ideas already exist but go unrealized.
• The Gates Foundation’s accelerated spend-down signals a major shift, with potential to reshape large-scale philanthropy's purpose and impact.
• Tax legislation threats are exposing the fragility of the sector’s self-preservation instinct, forcing a long-overdue reckoning with how and why philanthropic wealth is stored.

"Please, not fight for their endowments. Instead, use your endowments, even if it costs you your existence, to protect civil society." — Glen Galaich

"Foundations talk often about wanting to be available to do good work in the future. And I often ask, well, why would we want you doing good work in the future when you're not doing the best work now? Like, what means you're going to be great later?" — Glen Galaich

"It's still the American people saying, just a reminder, we let you have these dollars to play with, foundations, because we think you're interesting people, and you're going to use it for charitable purposes. That's why we get to do it." — Glen Galaich

Episode References: 

Imagination: A Manifesto by Ruha Benjamin: https://bookshop.org/p/books/imagination-a-manifesto-ruha-benjamin/20074537

A New Era of Philanthropy by Dimple Abichandani: https://bookshop.org/p/books/a-new-era-of-philanthropy-ten-practices-to-transform-wealth-into-a-more-just-and-sustainable-future-how-we-fund-in-times-of-crisis-and-opportu-dimple-/21638610

Philanthropy Confidential: https://stupski.org/philanthropy-confidential/

About Glen Galaich: Glen Galaich, Ph.D., is the CEO of the Stupski Foundation, where he leads efforts to return philanthropic wealth to the communities it was intended to serve. A vocal advocate for spend-down philanthropy, Glen is committed to supporting equity, justice, and dignity by challenging extractive foundation practices and investing in frontline organizations. With over two decades of experience in philanthropy and human rights, he brings a direct and honest approach to advancing systemic change alongside community leaders. Glen serves on the boards of Article3.org, Next River, Northern California Grantmakers, and Forward Global.

Connect with Glen: 

Website: https://stupski.org/break-fake-rules/

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/glengalaich

Break Fake Rules Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/break-fake-rules/id1725175883

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• The 22nd Century Initiative was co-founded by Scot Nakagawa and Urvashi Vaid to help activists imagine and build a democracy that can endure and evolve.
• Political theater and humor, like pranks and absurdity, are critical tools for deflating authoritarian power and inspiring resistance.
• The “ratchet effect” in U.S. politics means right-wing polarization pulls the political center further right, not just swinging a pendulum.
• Creating emotional and recreational space—like dance clubs and fishing groups—was essential in the success of Hawaii's sugar workers’ strike.
• Rural organizing through localized “human dignity groups” can build strong pro-democracy bases, even in deep-red counties.
• Mutual aid and joyful communal gatherings are not distractions but essential infrastructure in resisting authoritarianism.
• Scot emphasizes the necessity of imagining long-term democratic futures to escape the short-term reactive cycles.
• The Anti-Authoritarian Playbook Substack encourages activists to think creatively and playfully about strategy and resistance.
• Election protection and organizing at the local level are critical to safeguarding democratic infrastructure.
• The emotional life of movements—including joy, humor, and recognition—is what keeps people engaged over the long haul.

"We really need to start to reimagine governance… times like these call for prophets, for visionaries, for people who are thinking big." — Scot Nakagawa

“…there is more space (to maneuver) than you think there is." — Scot Nakagawa

"These four years should be viewed as just one phase of a kind of much longer process… understand that we the people have the power to turn this around." — Scot Nakagawa

Episode References: 

The Anti-Authoritarian Playbook on Substack: https://antiauthoritarianplaybook.substack.com/

About Scot Nakagawa: Scot Nakagawa is a 42-year veteran of social and economic justice advocacy, working since 1988 as an organizer, political strategist, and social movement analyst in the fight against authoritarianism and for inclusive democracy. He has collaborated with groups like the Coalition for Human Dignity, the National Anti-Klan Network, the National LGBTQ Task Force, the Highlander Research and Education Center, and others to counter the influence of racist, antisemitic, patriarchal, and fundamentalist movements. Scot co-founded ChangeLab, an Asian American think/act lab recognized by the Association of Asian American Studies with a Community Leader Award. He is a past Open Society Foundations fellow and was Senior Fellow on Nationalism, Authoritarianism, and Race at Race Forward. His essays can be found in The Anti-Authoritarian Playbook on Substack.

Connect with Scot: 

Website: https://www.22ci.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scot-nakagawa-53ba674/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Use metaphors and playful language to unlock creativity and connection in tense or ideologically diverse spaces.
• Interrupt burnout cycles by building regular pauses into your routine for reflection, release, and recalibration.
• Strengthen collective courage by creating environments where discomfort and difference are embraced, not avoided.
• Resist reactive thinking by choosing intentional, purpose-driven narratives that focus on hope and possibility.
• Anchor big visions in an abundance mindset instead of retreating to risk-averse strategies in uncertain times.
• Engage across divides by leading with curiosity and shared human values rather than assumptions or ideology.
• Reflect daily on both your actions and your emotional truth to align your leadership with inner clarity and intention.

"What play does is it takes away the rules, it lets us suspend the rules of the reality that we're in. It lets us use different parts of our mind and feel into the possible." — Rachel Brown

"Now is not the time to contract. We have to keep our ambition, because the problems are getting bigger. So I am telling nonprofit leaders to keep those BHAGs, those North Stars, those 10x visions." — Emma Colenbrander

"When you are standing in front of a wall and you just keep beating your head against the wall, you will not notice that there is a doorway three feet to your right." — Nealin Parker

About our Changemakers:

• Fatima Goss Graves is the President and CEO of the National Women’s Law Center and a co-founder of the TIME’S UP Legal Defense Fund, leading national efforts in gender justice and legal advocacy. [LinkedIn]
• Julia Roig is the Founder & Chief Network Weaver at The Horizons Project, promoting peace, justice, and democracy through narrative and restorative practices. [LinkedIn]
• Rachel Brown is the Founder and Executive Director of Over Zero, working to prevent identity-based violence by shifting harmful narratives and empowering community resilience. [LinkedIn]
• Ina Breuer is the Executive Director of NEID Global, a national peer-to-peer learning community of global donors, social investors, and families committed to equitable and impactful philanthropy. [LinkedIn]
• Jennifer Carolyn King is the founder of Rugged Elegance and co-leader of The Butterfly Effect Fund, investing in women-led ventures, mental health, and global social entrepreneurship. [LinkedIn]
• Emma Colenbrander is the Managing Director at Spring Impact and co-founder of Pollinate Group, helping nonprofits and social enterprises scale solutions for underserved communities. [LinkedIn]
• Nealin Parker is the Executive Director of Common Ground USA, part of Search for Common Ground, using peacebuilding principles to bridge divides within the United States. [LinkedIn]
• Sandy Herz is a former philanthropic executive at Sobrato Philanthropies and the Skoll Foundation, now curating The Elephant and the Butterfly Substack to share insights from 100 global changemakers. [LinkedIn]

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Edgar Villanueva's work reclaims philanthropy as a form of spiritual and cultural healing, rooted in his own personal and ancestral history.
• Reparations, at their core, are about repairing broken systems for the collective good, not about loss or blame.
• The Decolonizing Wealth Project has launched a $20 million Youth Mental Health Fund prioritizing BIPOC and queer youth with support from Melinda French Gates’ Pivotal Ventures!
• DWP has launched a $1 trillion moonshot for reparative justice over the next decade.
• Liberated Capital operates as a multi-racial, community-guided giving platform where members can contribute starting at $5/month. Anyone can join!
• Edgar emphasizes the importance of humor and joy as tools for resilience and community in justice movements.
• Reparative philanthropy isn’t about saviorism—it’s about redistributing power and trusting community-led solutions.
• Over 23 local commissions across the U.S. are actively exploring or implementing reparations today.
• Even amid polarization and despair, Edgar believes healing is possible through love, grace, and deep spiritual engagement.

"We all want to move forward, and it's really hard to do that in a real, authentic way in a country that refuses to recognize what has happened." — Edgar Villanueva

"Reparations is not only about repairing historical harm; it's about fixing our country in a way that benefits everyone." — Edgar Villanueva

"I invite folks to take on the identity of being a healer, and all of us doing what we can to heal even a little might help repair the mess we're in." — Edgar Villanueva

Episode References: 

Solidarity By Design from Decolonizing Wealth Project: https://decolonizingwealth.com/solidarity-by-design/

About Edgar Villanueva: Edgar Villanueva (Lumbee) is an award-winning author, activist, and founder/CEO of the Decolonizing Wealth Project (DWP) and Liberated Capital. His book Decolonizing Wealth (2018, 2021) helped spark a movement to transform philanthropy through an Indigenous lens. Since 2018, he has led efforts in healing, narrative change, and reparative giving. In 2025, DWP launched Moonshot, a 10-year plan to drive $1 trillion in reparative funding. Villanueva has mobilized nearly $1 billion, including $23 million through Liberated Capital. He advises major institutions on social impact. A Lumbee Tribe member, he holds UNC-Chapel Hill degrees, lives in NYC, and has been featured in major publications including the New York Times, NPR, Barron’s, Teen Vogue, Vox, and Forbes magazine. Villanueva has contributed to the Washington Post, the Advocate, and Stanford Social Innovation Review.

Connect with Edgar: 

Website: https://www.edgarvillanueva.net/ & https://decolonizingwealth.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/villanuevaedgar/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edgarv/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VillanuevaEdgarOfficial/

Decolonizing Wealth: https://bookshop.org/p/books/decolonizing-wealth-second-edition-indigenous-wisdom-to-heal-divides-and-restore-balance-edgar-villanueva/10784512

Twitter: https://twitter.com/VillanuevaEdgar

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• The cascade of corporate announcements proves that the data-driven metrics showing DEI programs positively impact the bottom line will not be ignored by boards and shareholders who have a fiduciary responsibility to protect the bottom line!
• A small but vocal group of shareholder activists is targeting DEI initiatives, but corporate boards and shareholders overwhelmingly reject their proposals. Again and again.
• Nancy’s approach to DEI advocacy—highlighting a “DEI Job of the Day” and “DEI Employer of the Day”—injects a level of positivity and engagement into a serious issue.
• Despite pressure from 19 state attorneys general, Costco and others remain committed to DEI, backed by a 98% shareholder vote. Stories like this are abundant.
• Play is always in fashion, and companies have long incorporated it into their culture (e.g., team-building exercises and humor), reinforcing the importance of joy in serious work.

"DEI is anything but on the ropes—it's in the center of the ring throwing counter punches." — Nancy Levine Stearns

"At the corporate level, at the board and shareholder level, there really is not much support for these anti-DEI initiatives. And the reason there isn’t much support is because the metrics do show that DEI initiatives are good for the bottom line, and that’s largely how they make their decisions." — Nancy Levine Stearns

"There is data. There are metrics-driven. There is data that DEI programs enhance bottom-line metrics, absolutely." — Nancy Levine Stearns

Episode References: 

On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century by Timothy Snyder: https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-tyranny-twenty-lessons-from-the-twentieth-century-timothy-snyder/16520165?ean=9780804190114&next=t&listref=bookshop-org-best-sellers-of-the-week&next=t

About Nancy Levine Stearns: Nancy Levine Stearns is a freelance journalist and author of The Tao of Pug book series (Penguin/Skyhorse). Her reporting has been cited by The New York Times, NBC News, and Forbes, among others. She was the No. 1 ESG Influencer on Twitter in 2020, according to a Commetric study. Nancy was a career executive recruiter, starting at American Express headquarters in New York, recruiting for companies and nonprofits, including the Knight Foundation and Autodesk, among many others. She is originally from Scarsdale, New York, and now resides with her husband in Eugene, Oregon.

Connect with Nancy Levine Stearns: 

Website: http://impactivize.org/

Email: levine.nancy@gmail.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancy-levine-stearns-a753782/

Bluesky: https://web-cdn.bsky.app/profile/nancylevinestearns.bsky.social

The Tao of Pug: https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Pug-Nancy-Levine/dp/1510714413

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this audience-favorite rewind episode, we explore the power of play, joy, and inclusive storytelling for driving transformative social change with Ada Williams Prince. 

Known widely for her work with Melinda French Gates and Pivotal Ventures, our guest is a visionary nonprofit leader who has stepped out on her own, continuing to champion the voices and experiences of women and girls of color to build a more just and equitable world. She shares how protecting spaces for marginalized communities to dream, imagine, and express their authentic selves is essential for unlocking innovative solutions to complex social issues. 

We discuss the pivotal role of play in fostering creativity, flexibility, and joy, key ingredients for envisioning alternative futures and reframing perceived weaknesses as strengths. Our guest opens up about how her mother's playful spirit inspired a lifelong commitment to community activism and engagement, and how a summer camp at the YMCA sparked her passion for policy and systems change. 

She highlights the importance of embracing vulnerability, intersectionality, and intergenerational collaboration to dismantle systemic barriers and drive meaningful structural change through initiatives focused on economic justice, women's rights, and transformative philanthropy.

Key Takeaways:

• Vulnerability is a superpower
• The only thing that future-proofs the world is imagination
• The “adultification” of girls of color robs them of the opportunity to fully explore joy and play
• Therefore, designing spaces for girls of color to dream, play, and tap their full potential is the ultimate “curb cut” strategy – it benefits everyone
• Scaling for impact without play leaves you at risk of “getting there,” but without the people, voices, and communities you need around the table

Key Quotes

"If there's no joy in it, you're not changing anything." - Ada Williams Prince  

"If you've ever been in a room of black women, there is no stopping them from building joy and being playful. There's no way, not, not ever, ever, ever, ever. So we never stop being joyful and playful in the midst of all kinds of darkness." - Ada Williams Prince 

"Scale doesn't always mean linear and scale doesn't always mean up. I think scale can also mean broad. Scale can also mean digging deep." - Ada Williams Prince

"The only thing that future proofs the world is imagination, and being able to explore that imagination for all of us." — Ada Williams Prince

About Ada Williams Prince: A creative leader at the cutting edge of global and domestic philanthropy. Ada has worked for two decades to advance the power and influence of women and girls of color around the world, She has conceived groundbreaking disruptions to philanthropic norms and scalable models to transform the field along the way. By championing the formation of the first 'Women and Girls of Color Design Council' within a premium philanthropic and venture organization, she has envisioned a future in philanthropy and investment built around silo-busting investment strategies and fundamental trust in women and girls at the intersection of gender, race/ethnicity, and economics. Ada is leading a growing community of funders committed to transforming capital and decision-making.

Connect with Ada: 

Website: https://www.thehighlandproject.org/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ada-williams-prince-4690605/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Nonetheless, modern play research (and inspiration for The PlayFull Podcast!) began with Dr. Brown, who has been studying play for as long as this host has been alive! 

His interest in play began in 1968 when he was tapped to investigate the mental state and life story of a mass murderer and discovered that a “play deficit” over the course of the man’s life was the main contributor to his instability. Decades of research followed and informed a belief that play is as vital to humans as adequate sleep and nutrition.

Bringing us up to date and including work with industry and academic leaders over 60 years, Dr. Brown delivers fun tips, surprising insights, and bits of mischief to inspire those doing the heavy work of changing the world.

---

Bio - Stuart Brown:

Trained in general and internal medicine, psychiatry, and clinical research, Dr. Stuart Brown first recognized the importance of play. His clinical practice and review of over 6000 personal play histories affirmed the need for healthy play. His exploration of human and animal play led to the National Institute for Play. The NIFP aims to bring the benefits of play into public life. Dr. Brown produced a PBS series and co-produced a BBC-PBS series. His writings have made him a champion of play. His book has been translated into twelve languages. He teaches at Stanford and advises the Global Play Science Institute. He received the Joe L. Frost award. Play enhances overall well-being. Our species is built for play.

How you can connect with Dr. Brown:

https://www.nifplay.org/about-us/contact/

Speaker Bureau Profile:

https://www.allamericanspeakers.com/celebritytalentbios/Stuart+Brown/384295

---

Sources and Websites from Episode:

TED TALK

https://www.facebook.com/SportNZ/videos/ted-talk-play-is-more-than-just-fun/615100105736388/

NIFP WEBSITE

https://www.nifplay.org/

DR. BROWNS BOOK

https://bookshop.org/p/books/play-how-it-shapes-the-brain-opens-the-imagination-and-invigorates-the-soul-stuart-brown/577397?ean=9781583333785&gclid=Cj0KCQjw756lBhDMARIsAEI0AgkvZjOfqh1_IgAeDVcyWLKRH9XYxkOBpYZZhrW4JlWtR0upTOrW_YEaAlLpEALw_wcB

Chapters:

Timestamp

Summary

[0:00:00] Introduction to Dr. Stuart Brown and the importance of play

[0:02:04] Dr. Brown's background and the significance of his uncle

[0:04:50] The concept of play history and its importance

[0:07:00] Play deprivation and interventions for marginalized individuals

[0:09:41] Dr. Brown's research on play deprivation and its impact on violence

[0:15:09] Characteristics of Play and its Relationship to work and Depression

[0:19:03] The role of play in the lives of change makers

[0:22:00] The importance of understanding and embracing one's play personality

[0:29:19] Using play in work settings and the importance of authenticity

[0:39:03] The National Institute of Play and its resources for play research

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Dedicate 5% of your workweek to future-focused thinking so you can stay adaptive and intentional instead of reactive and overwhelmed.
• Start strategic planning by asking what success looks like 30 to 50 years from now to unlock bold, visionary goals untethered from current constraints.
• Replace rigid five-year strategic plans with a rolling three-year plan that gets updated quarterly in response to real-world shifts.
• Practice scenario planning to prepare for multiple plausible futures rather than betting on a single outcome that may never happen.
• Shift from analyzing what’s broken to designing what’s possible—spending time “loving the problem” keeps you stuck in diagnosis instead of progress.
• Use joy, play, and awe to energize your planning processes because emotional engagement builds trust, creativity, and collaboration.
• Lean into collective action over competition during funding or system crises by finding shared goals and resource-pooling opportunities.

"The future is not a big scary thing coming towards us. We create the future with the decisions that we make today." — Trista Harris

"My job as a futurist is not to have a crystal ball and say, "Here's exactly what the future is going to look like." My job is to make people curious about the future and teach them a set of tools they can bring... so they can tell me what's coming next—that expertise really lives in the sector." — Trista Harris

"We encourage people to set aside 5% of their time for the future... During that time, imagine what it would look like in your highest hopes, and what can happen to build towards your highest hopes... instead of just trying to uphold the thing that wasn't working fantastically beforehand." — Trista Harris

Episode References: 

The Elders: https://theelders.org/

Learn Your Play Personalities Quiz: https://nifplay.org/what-is-play/play-personalities/

About Trista Harris: Trista Harris is a philanthropic futurist who uses futurism to tackle global community challenges. Her work has been featured in Forbes, CNN, The New York Times, and The Chronicle of Philanthropy. Trista is the President of FutureGood, a consultancy focused on creating a better future, and has authored two books, "How to Become a Nonprofit Rockstar" and "Future Good." She has worked in the social sector since age 15 and previously served as President of the Minnesota Council on Foundations and Executive Director of the Headwaters Foundation for Justice. Trista holds a Master of Public Policy from the University of Minnesota and is a strategic foresight expert certified by Oxford University.

Connect with Trista: 

Website: https://www.wearefuturegood.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/weare_futuregood/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristaharris/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/futuregoodstudio/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WeAreFutureGood/

Books: https://www.wearefuturegood.com/store

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Philanthropy must evolve from isolated, individualistic actions toward collective strategies that recognize the interconnectedness of resources, responsibility, and community power.
• Today's urgent crises require philanthropy to move beyond the old goal of doing “some good” and instead pursue bold, systemic transformations that maximize justice and sustainability.
• Transparency in grantmaking, decision-making, and wealth distribution is essential to dismantling the "black box" mystery that surrounds philanthropy. 
• Leaders must intentionally build cultures of joy, play, and embodiment within philanthropy to prevent burnout, spark creativity, and invite fuller participation in transformational change.
• Grantmaking institutions must streamline application processes and prioritize ease and dignity for applicants to genuinely practice trust-based philanthropy and reduce systemic burdens.
• Future-oriented philanthropy demands a commitment to reimagine and redesign systems, not simply to patch over injustices but to create entirely new structures rooted in equity.
• Ancestral values of care, mutual responsibility, and moral imagination must inform modern philanthropy if we are to navigate the complex challenges of climate change, authoritarianism, and inequality.

"Joy to me is the connection to creativity. It's how we open up space for something that doesn't or wouldn't exist otherwise." — Dimple Abichandani

"We only have a democracy if we're all a part of it, if everybody takes responsibility for it." — Dimple Abichandani

Episode References: 

Gospel of Wealth by Andrew Carnegie: https://bookshop.org/p/books/gospel-of-wealth-andrew-carnegie/0e13f41bec5d506f

Learn Your Play Personalities Quiz: https://nifplay.org/what-is-play/play-personalities/

About Dimple Abichandani: Dimple Abichandani is a nationally recognized philanthropic leader, lawyer, and author of A New Era of Philanthropy: Ten Practices to Transform Wealth Into a More Just and Sustainable Future, a book that reimagines how philanthropy can meet this moment. For two decades, she has worked to reshape philanthropy’s purpose and practice while leading innovative funding institutions. As Executive Director of the General Service Foundation (2015–2022), she aligned the foundation’s grantmaking, investments, and governance with justice values. Dimple’s leadership has been recognized with a Scrivener Award for Creative Grantmaking, and she serves on the Board of Directors of Solidaire Network and other philanthropic boards and committees.

Connect with Dimple: 

Website: https://www.dimpleabichandani.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dimple-abichandani-10948366/

Book: A New Era of Philanthropy: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/771428/a-new-era-of-philanthropy-by-dimple-abichandani/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Funders must restructure decision-making bodies to include people from the communities most affected by the issues at hand.
• Frontline climate justice organizations require long-term, flexible funding—short bursts of crisis giving are insufficient.
• The 5% annual payout requirement should be treated as a baseline, not a ceiling—especially during social and environmental emergencies. Like now!
• Mission-aligned investing is crucial: Foundations cannot claim to support climate justice, for example, while investing in fossil fuel companies.
• NCRP’s Power Moves toolkit offers a practical, equity-centered self-assessment for funders to evaluate how they build, share, and wield power.
• Silence from funders in politically hostile times weakens civil society—foundations must publicly support their grantees under attack.
• Embedding joy, play, and community care into organizational culture is essential for sustaining activism and leadership through adversity.

"[If funders are waiting for a rainy day] The rainy day here, and it’s a hurricane. The urgency is now increased; increase your payout even more and get that money out the door." — Senowa Mize-Fox

"An endowed private foundation has no natural predators. No one can put it out of business... They're not accountable to voters, consumers who buy their products, or a stock market." — Aaron Dorfman

"If you’re investing in things detrimental to the communities you purport to serve with your grant-making dollars, then you're not actually supporting those communities—and that cancels each other out... we’re finding that more than you'd think." — Senowa Mize-Fox

Episode References: 

Power Moves Toolkit: https://ncrp.org/power-moves/

Just Returns Brief: https://ncrp.org/resources/just-returns-clean-investments-impact/

NRCP Climate Justice: https://ncrp.org/climate-justice

Imagination: A Manifesto by Ruha Benjamin: https://www.ruhabenjamin.com/imagination-a-manifesto

About Aaron Dorfman and Senowa Mize-Fox:

Aaron is the president and CEO of NCRP, which advocates for grantmakers to be responsive to those with the least wealth and power. He frequently speaks on diversity, equity, inclusion, and the need for accountability in philanthropy. Before joining NCRP in 2007, Dorfman spent 15 years as a community organizer. He holds degrees from Carleton College and Indiana University and serves on multiple boards.

Senowa Mize-Fox is the Movement Engagement Manager for Climate Justice at the National Committee for Responsive Philanthropy (NCRP). Outside of work, she enjoys hiking, swimming, and dancing to early 2000s pop music. 

Connect with Aaron and Senowa: 

Website: https://ncrp.org/

Aaron’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaron-dorfman/

Senowa’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/senowa-mize-fox/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Digital connectivity can build financial systems that follow people across borders, crises, and time—access should be as portable as a phone number.
• True inclusion means designing for those without banks, credit histories, or infrastructure.
• Community value systems—like trust networks and mutual aid—should be empowered by tech, not replaced.
• If your solution excludes the most marginalized from basic services, it must be rethought from the ground up.
• Collaboration across tech, art, education, and activism is essential to build ecosystems rooted in shared values.
• Art and creativity aren’t extras—they help us grasp complex issues and imagine change.
• Open, decentralized systems can expand access—but need legal, cultural, and advocacy support.
• Financial rights are human rights—not market perks.
• We must stop treating money as taboo—economic empowerment is key to justice and transformation.

"A lack of creative solutions has a real chilling effect on progress." — Chris Lawrence

"Maybe there's something in a communal sense, where there's no value outside of that community, but if it's facilitating the transactions of that value within the community, then that’s serving a purpose." — Chris Lawrence

“Fun and play aren’t frivolous; they’re crucial in sustaining momentum, encouraging risk-taking, and breaking through ‘stuck’ thinking in serious work.” — Chris Lawrence

Episode References: 

Hacktoberfest: https://hacktoberfest.com/

Building Tech for the Just Transition – An AI Platform for the Social Sector with guests Aram Fischer and Mikka Kei MacDonald: https://www.impactfullinc.com/playfull-podcast/aram-fischer-mikka-kei-macdonald

Delivering Money and Meaning for Marginalized Founders with Kat Gabrielle: https://www.impactfullinc.com/playfull-podcast/kat-gabrielle

Equalizing Access to the Tools and Levers that Grow the Economy with Erin Axelrod: https://www.impactfullinc.com/playfull-podcast/erin-axelrod

About Chris Lawrence: Chris Lawrence is the Head of Programs at Interledger Foundation, where he leads grant-making programs and strategic partnerships to advance financial inclusion through open-web technologies. With two decades of experience in the nonprofit sector, he is driven by the vision of creating positive social change through education, technology, and network building. He also serves as an RSA Fellow, contributing to global initiatives that promote social justice, civic engagement, and human creativity. Previously, he was the Senior Program Manager at Grant for the Web and co-founded Loup, a consultancy focused on stakeholder storytelling. Additionally, he has held leadership roles at Mozilla, supporting a global network of leaders in web literacy and digital rights.

Connect with Chris: 

Website: https://interledger.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/interledgerfoundation/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislarry/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/interledger-foundation/

Twitter: https://x.com/interledger

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Businesses should be regenerative by design, ensuring economic success is aligned with sustainability, community well-being, and long-term resilience.
• Regenerative principles extend beyond agriculture and can be applied to economic systems, governance, and business operations to create holistic transformation.
• Worker-owned cooperatives, built on the principle of “one worker, one vote,” lead to greater resilience, fair wages, and shared prosperity.
• Economy and ecology have the same root word, “eco” which means home. The prevailing extractive mindset wants us to think of these things as separate but they are not. 
• Instead of prioritizing shareholder profits above all, businesses should consider all stakeholders—including workers, communities, and the environment—to create a more just economy.
• Alternative ownership structures, such as cooperatives and mission-locked businesses, provide a pathway to long-term financial resilience while staying true to ethical principles.
• Economic transformation requires rethinking business design at every level, from ownership to decision-making structures, to create an economy in balance with ecosystems.

"We believe that the next economy inevitably has to be one that's in balance with our ecosystems, and especially with human ecosystems being in balance with one another." — Erin Axelrod

"When we think about the existential crisis for so many species on the planet, it really is imperative for human sustenance to make sure that the planet works for those more-than-human species as well." — Erin Axelrod

"Let's get back to the root of the word "economy." It's home care, and we share this home planet with all of life, not just humans." — Erin Axelrod

Episode References: 

BOOKS

The Next Economy MBA by Lift Economy: Axelod, Bayuk, Berry, Honeyman, Soleil: https://www.bkconnection.com/books/title/The-Next-Economy-MBA

Never Alone by Woniya Dawn Thibeault: https://bookshop.org/p/books/never-alone-a-solo-arctic-survival-journey-woniya-dawn-thibeault/20004803

Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer: https://bookshop.org/p/books/braiding-sweetgrass-robin-wall-kimmerer/16712606

Grow Wild by Katy Bowman: https://bookshop.org/p/books/grow-wild-the-whole-child-whole-family-nature-rich-guide-to-moving-more-katy-bowman/15589658

Next Economy MBA by Lift Economy: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-next-economy-mba-redesigning-business-for-the-benefit-of-all-life/18948897

Beyond the B Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-b-latest-on-the-b-corp-movement/id1747076048

Connect with Erin: 

Website: https://www.lifteconomy.com/

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lifteconomy/

Erin’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaxelrod/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LIFTEconomy/

Twitter: http://twitter.com/lifteconomy

Next Economy Now Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/next-economy-now-for-the-benefit-of-all-life/id1074584017

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Traditional background checks often create permanent employment barriers, even for individuals who have been out of the justice system for decades.
• A more holistic approach to assessing candidates with records can help employers and lenders make better-informed decisions while expanding opportunities.
• One in three working-age adults in the U.S. is system impacted, yet hiring methods often treat them as perpetually risky, limiting workforce participation.
• Businesses with unfilled roles lose an average of $14,000 every 90 days per position, highlighting the financial cost of excluding qualified candidates.
• Many financial institutions and employers still rely on outdated risk models, missing out on potential employees and entrepreneurs who are otherwise ready to contribute.
• Second-chance hiring is increasingly becoming an economic necessity, especially in industries facing massive labor shortages, like energy and infrastructure.
• Credit scores and criminal background checks often fail to provide full context, leading to risk-averse decision-making that disproportionately affects marginalized communities.
• Fair hiring policies can benefit both employers and the economy, reducing recidivism while filling critical workforce gaps.
• Expanding hiring criteria beyond traditional background checks can lead to more equitable access to housing, education, and employment.
• A data-driven approach to risk assessment can help businesses align their workforce strategies with both compliance and social impact goals.

"At present, our current behavior and systems are designed that if you have ever come in contact with the criminal justice system, you're kind of considered perpetually risky, which we know is not true." — Laurin Leonard

"Legacy is such a weird word… but you could have a living legacy, and you could have a legacy of love and things that have nothing to do with money." — Laurin Leonard

Episode References: 

Impact Hub: https://impacthub.net/

Unwavering: The Power of Black Innovation Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTARHULM_dE

Community Development Financial Institutions Fund: https://www.cdfifund.gov/

Anti Recidivism Coalition: https://antirecidivism.org/

Fair Credit Reporting Act: https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/statutes/fair-credit-reporting-act

SOCAP Global: https://socapglobal.com/

About Laurin Leonard: Laurin Leonard is CEO of R3 Score Technologies, pioneering the future of workforce development and background checks. Leading a venture-backed company in a $200 billion market, Laurin drives cross sector partnerships to create business value and social impact.  She’s a thought leader on double bottom line models.

Connect with Laurin: 

Website: https://r3score.com/

Mission: Launch: https://www.mission-launch.org/

Email: laurin@r3score.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurinhleonard/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/r3score

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Optimism is a skill that can be developed by actively choosing to focus on solutions rather than just problems.
• The news cycle amplifies negativity, making it essential to seek out stories of progress and resilience.
• Playfulness and humor in leadership improve morale, boost creativity, and strengthen team cohesion.
• Pessimism leads to apathy, while optimism fuels engagement and action toward meaningful change.
• Media trust has become polarized, with audiences increasingly drawn to sources that reinforce existing beliefs. This narrows options and optimism.
• If you look at the news, you might think things have never been worse; if you look at history, you might think things have never been better.
• Training your mind to notice goodness can reshape your worldview and cultivate a more optimistic outlook.

"Pessimism leads to apathy. Optimism does not. A lot of people have it backwards." — Bill Burke

"I define an optimist as someone who thinks that tomorrow will be better than today and that they have a role in making it so." — Bill Burke

"Try to catch people being good. It's all over the place." — Bill Burke

Episode References: 

Play Personalities Quiz: https://nifplay.org/what-is-play/play-personalities/

Right Thing, Right Now by Kevin Holiday:

https://bookshop.org/p/books/right-thing-right-now-justice-in-an-unjust-world-ryan-holiday/20617359?ean=9780593191712&next=t

Partnering by Jean Oelwang:

https://bookshop.org/p/books/partnering-forge-the-deep-connections-that-make-great-things-happen-jean-oelwang/18282014?ean=9780593189542&next=t

About Bill Burke: Bill Burke founded The Optimism Institute in 2022 after a career in media and sports as an executive, writer, and producer. He was CEO of The Weather Channel Companies and previously held key roles at Time Warner/Turner Broadcasting, including founding GM of Turner Classic Movies and president of TBS Superstation. For 15 years, he co-owned and chaired the Portland Sea Dogs, the Red Sox’s double-A affiliate.

Bill co-authored Ted Turner’s Call Me Ted and co-wrote/produced/directed Live Another Day, a documentary on the U.S. auto bailout.

A lifelong optimist (and Detroit Lions fan), he launched The Optimism Institute to inspire a hopeful vision of the world’s future.

Connect with Bill: 

Website: https://www.theoptimisminstitute.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/optimisminstitute/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100086252954973

Twitter: https://x.com/OptInstitute

Blue Sky Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blue-sky/id1670686589

https://open.spotify.com/show/7D7JK1FdOVqkovzFJbO6Z5?si=1ff540e9f4ce48ff 

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Imposter syndrome, coined in the 1970s, did not account for systemic challenges faced by marginalized groups, making it an incomplete framework for understanding self-doubt.
• Black women start more businesses in the U.S. than any other demographic, yet their businesses struggle to sustain due to systemic funding disparities.
• Aggregating funding resources and making them accessible to marginalized entrepreneurs can significantly improve business sustainability and growth.
• Visibility and radical authenticity are essential strategies for navigating industries that often exclude underrepresented voices.
• A direct connection between venture capital firms and diverse founders can help bridge the funding gap that disproportionately affects Black women and LGBTQ+ entrepreneurs.
• Sustaining a business requires more than just funding—it also involves education on financial literacy, networking, and understanding different funding routes.
• Rest, play, and joy are necessary tools for maintaining resilience in the face of challenges, preventing burnout, and fostering creativity.
• The impact of social change work is magnified when imagination and innovation are prioritized over merely reacting to existing structures.
• Empathy gaps in corporate and social structures make it crucial to build communities where marginalized professionals feel seen, supported, and funded.

"I have to be as radical as possible, because if I’m not, I give people the space to not see me." — Kat Gabrielle

"We've all been colonized to think a certain way, and if we allow ourselves to dive deep into our imagination, we can create the world we want instead of just reacting to the world we have." — Kat Gabrielle

Episode References: 

Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? by Beverly Daniel Tatum

All About Love by bell hooks

Playground by Richard Powers

Episode with LaTosha Brown: Joy is the New… Everything

Episode with Stuart Brown: On the Shoulders of Giants (Aristotle specifically)

About Kat Gabrielle: Kat Gabrielle is a three-time Social Impact Entrepreneur, Speaker, and Facilitator dedicated to advancing equity and opportunity as a Black, queer woman. As the Founder of The Well Work, she has built a thriving community of over 50,000 Black women and non-binary entrepreneurs, redistributing over $1.3 million in funding in 2023. With a decade of experience as a Fractional Head of People and DEI, she has collaborated with major organizations like Google, Spotify, and Stanford University to drive systemic change. Through global facilitation and leadership programs, Kat remains committed to uplifting marginalized voices and building equitable systems.

Connect with Kat: 

Website: https://www.thewellwork.co/ 

Email: kat@thewellwork.co

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katgabrielle

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Change Agent AI is a generative AI tool specifically designed for social impact and advocacy organizations, aligning with progressive values and mitigating bias.
• Community Change helped co-found Change Agent AI to create an AI platform built by and for the progressive movement, rather than relying on corporate tech giants.
• The platform prioritizes user data privacy, storing information on the organization’s servers rather than sharing it with third-party corporations and those tearing down vital institutions.
• By aligning AI tools with social justice values, users can shape the technology rather than passively consuming it – or being harmed by it.
• The platform offers custom large language models (LLMs) tailored to an organization's voice, values, and worldview.
• AI tools should be seen as a highly capable intern—not a replacement—while human wisdom, insight, and final review remain essential.
• The progressive tech movement is challenging the dominance of big tech corporations by creating alternative, values-aligned tools.
• Inclusivity and equity can be embedded in AI tools from the ground up—rather than added as an afterthought or manipulated for ill.

"What we all know is that there is no such thing as being neutral—no such thing as being non-political. And so, what Change Agent is able to do is counter some of the averages of the internet [for good]." — Mikka Kei MacDonald

"Think of AI as an extremely technically talented intern—give them background info, a bit of direction, and they can do almost anything... that's how generative AI works for content generation." — Aram Fischer

"Ideally, the more people who learn how to use this tool, the more who can shape its future—we're not just consumers, but also shaping the tool to fit our needs." — Mikka Kei MacDonald

About Aram Fischer and Mikka Kei MacDonald:

Aram Fischer is the CEO & Cofounder of Change Agent AI, the first generative AI platform developed specifically for social impact and advocacy. His career has focused on telling powerful stories whether through documentary film, the special events industry, or technology.

Mikka Kei Ito Macdonald is a policy and campaign specialist, creative director, and writer dedicated to driving community change. As Creative Director at Community Change, she builds power for low-income communities—especially people of color—through advocacy, storytelling, and design.

Connect with Aram and Mikka: 

Change Agent: https://thechange.ai/

Community Change: https://www.communitychange.org/

Aram’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aramfischer/

Mikka’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikkamacdonald/

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Justice Funders is committed to a 100-year transition vision, guiding philanthropy toward a just and regenerative economy where philanthropy, ultimately, there is no longer any need for it.
• Play and imagination are integral to movement-building, and Justice Funders uses creative approaches like theater exercises, writing prompts, and storytelling to foster engagement and trust.
• Trust is a foundational element in long-term movement work, especially in philanthropy, where shifting financial resources to communities requires deep relationships and shared vision.
• Philanthropy must recognize that communities already have the wisdom and solutions they need—the role of funders is to remove obstacles and provide resources, not dictate solutions.
• The transition toward justice is not a future aspiration but a present reality, happening in communities now through cooperative housing models, tenant takeovers, and creative economic solutions.
• Integrating play into serious work, from icebreaker questions to Theater of the Oppressed exercises, fosters creativity, sustains activists, and strengthens relationships.
• The act of “ushering” philanthropy into the just transition acknowledges that systemic change is inevitable and invites institutions to actively participate rather than resist.

"The transition is happening now—and the work [happening in] communities nationwide is proof: tenants taking over buildings, starting co-ops, creating what we call ‘building the new.’ This isn’t a distant future—it’s happening now." — Lora Smith

"Long-term relationship building is a core value that we rely on in doing much of this movement work, recognizing that community folks have the wisdom." — Dino Foxx

"The work our members are doing on the ground—building alternatives that create affordable solutions—is the joy. Seeing kids grow up in an environment where they’ll be stable for the long run—that’s everything." — Fernando Abarca

Episode References: 

Theater of the Oppressed (created by Augusto Boal): https://imaginaction.org/media/our-methods/theatre-of-the-oppressed-2/

About Lora, Dino, and Fernando:

Justice Funders is a partner and guide for philanthropy in reimagining practices that advance a thriving and just world. Through untethered imagination and rethinking made-up rules in philanthropy, Justice Funders is helping foundations reimagine what’s possible.

• Dino Foxx is the Director of Imagination & Culture at Justice Funders, a poet, drag performer, and cultural strategist committed to creative activism and movement-building.
• Lora Smith is the Director of Investment Partnerships at Justice Funders, a philanthropic strategist focused on economic justice, rural development, and fostering trust-based grantmaking.
• Fernando Abarca is a Governing Body member of the Just Transition Integrated Capital Fund (a project of Justice Funders) and the Associate Director of Capital Strategies at Right to the City, working to shift financial power and advance housing justice through community-driven investment strategies.

Connect with  Lora, Dino, and Fernando: 

Website: https://justicefunders.org/

Lora’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lora-smith-09502638

Dino’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dino-foxx-88a82112a/

Fernando’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fernando-x-abarca-3a116a1b7

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions.

Key Takeaways:

• Recognizing and celebrating ethical leaders can create a cultural shift towards honesty in governance.
• Focusing on uplifting individuals who do the right thing generates positive momentum and inspires others.
• Music, film, sports, and storytelling are effective tools for social change, engaging people in governance and accountability.
• Young people respond better to hope and role models than fear-based narratives about corruption.
• Bringing together government insiders and creative outsiders (like musicians and artists) can drive systemic change.
• The best solutions to governance issues often come from the people most affected, not external experts.
• Leadership models that distribute power across multiple leaders foster inclusivity and effectiveness.

"Often, it's the usual suspects in rooms talking about things to each other, and that isn't changing anything because it's not bringing in others who have different perspectives and who can create change." — Blair Glencorse

"The kinds of values that we should appreciate in society, and the kinds of things that we should be made famous for, are our values, our beliefs, and the ways that we serve others." — Blair Glencorse

"It's all about what we call naming and faming rather than naming and shaming... catching people doing the right thing rather than the wrong thing." — Blair Glencorse

Episode References: 

The Philadelphia Citizen: https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/

Open Government Partnership: https://www.opengovpartnership.org/

Woopie Town Board Game: https://woopietown.com/

The Carter Center: https://www.cartercenter.org/

Integrity Icon Awards: https://integrityicon.org/

About Blair Glencorse: Blair Glencorse is Founder and Co-CEO of Accountability Lab- and is considered one of the world’s most influential thinkers on issues of governance and citizen engagement. He is a seasoned international development professional and social innovator, with significant experience across issues of accountability, institutional reform and political-economy transitions. Blair has worked around the world with governments, the private sector, philanthropists, the media and civil society to improve lives. In everything he does Blair seek to support communities and connect people- to develop ideas, overcome challenges and build positive change.

Connect with Blair: 

Website: http://www.accountabilitylab.org/ & http://www.integrityicon.org/

Email: blair@accountabilitylab.org

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/accountlab

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/accountlab & https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairglencorse

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/accountabilitylab

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• The list of companies standing strong on DEI is long and needs to be reported. Costco is a prime example, but they are by no means the only!
• Data-driven metrics show that DEI programs positively impact a company’s bottom line, reinforcing the undeniable business case for maintaining them.
• A small but vocal group of shareholder activists is targeting DEI initiatives, but corporate boards and shareholders overwhelmingly reject their proposals.
• Nancy’s approach to DEI advocacy—highlighting a “DEI Job of the Day” and “DEI Employer of the Day”—injects a level of positivity and engagement into a serious issue.
• Referencing On Tyranny—“Don’t obey in advance”—highlights the need for individuals and organizations to resist authoritarian pressures against DEI.
• Despite pressure from 19 state attorneys general, Costco remains committed to DEI, backed by a 98% shareholder vote. Stories like this are abundant.
• Play is always in fashion and companies have long incorporated it into their culture (e.g., team-building exercises and humor), reinforcing the importance of joy in serious work.

"DEI is anything but on the ropes—it's in the center of the ring throwing counter punches." — Nancy Levine Stearns

"At the corporate level, at the board and shareholder level, there really is not much support for these anti-DEI initiatives. And the reason there isn’t much support is because the metrics do show that DEI initiatives are good for the bottom line, and that’s largely how they make their decisions." — Nancy Levine Stearns

"There is data. There are metrics driven. There is data that DEI programs enhance bottom-line metrics, absolutely." — Nancy Levine Stearns

Episode References: 

On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century by Timothy Snyder: https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-tyranny-twenty-lessons-from-the-twentieth-century-timothy-snyder/16520165?ean=9780804190114&next=t&listref=bookshop-org-best-sellers-of-the-week&next=t

About Nancy Levine Stearns: Nancy Levine Stearns is a freelance journalist and author of The Tao of Pug book series (Penguin/Skyhorse). Her reporting has been cited by The New York Times, NBC News, and Forbes, among others. She was the No. 1 ESG Influencer on Twitter in 2020, according to a Commetric study. Nancy was a career executive recruiter, starting at American Express headquarters in New York, recruiting for companies and nonprofits including the Knight Foundation and Autodesk, among many others. She is originally from Scarsdale, New York, and now resides with her husband in Eugene, Oregon.

Connect with Nancy Levine Stearns: 

Website: http://impactivize.org/

Email: levine.nancy@impactivize.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancy-levine-stearns-a753782/

Bluesky: https://web-cdn.bsky.app/profile/nancylevinestearns.bsky.social

The Tao of Pug: https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Pug-Nancy-Levine/dp/1510714413

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Key Takeaways:

• Love isn't just an emotion; it's a daily decision. 
• Finding joy and playfulness in serious work prevents burnout and sustains long-term impact.
• Discussions on justice, equity, and inclusion remain critical, and despite efforts to suppress these conversations, they must continue.
• Financial and economic empowerment, especially for women and marginalized groups, is essential for long-term systemic change.
• Reflections on history, from Harriet Tubman’s journey following the North Star to the wisdom of suffragettes, remind us that today’s struggles are part of the ongoing, never-ending movement towards justice.

"What is big is what you focus on." — LaTosha Brown

"I do think that there is actual power in just feeling joyful, and playing is one way. So I’m going to encourage you all to play with whoever is in your sphere—today, tomorrow, the weekend, next week—because you get juice from that too." — Elizabeth Cushing

About our Changemakers:

• Kathyann Powell is the founder of Saving Jane, a nonprofit dedicated to preventing human trafficking and supporting survivors through education, advocacy, and innovative awareness initiatives. [LinkedIn]
• Fatima Ameri is a philanthropy graduate student and ImpactFull, Inc. intern, dedicated to education and women's empowerment. [LinkedIn]
• Jess Yupanqui Feingold is a mission-driven executive, impact investor, and creative entrepreneur, serving as Co-CEO of Common Future to build a more equitable economy. [LinkedIn]
• Salin Geevarghese is President & CEO of SGG Insight, Senior Fellow at CSSP, and former HUD Deputy Assistant Secretary under President Obama. [LinkedIn]
• Elizabeth Cushing is the CEO of Playworks, a national organization leveraging the power of play to transform children’s well-being. [LinkedIn]
• Dale Anglin is the director of Press Forward, leading a $500M initiative to strengthen local news, with a background in philanthropy, policy, and community impact. [LinkedIn]
• Julia Roig is the Founder & Chief Network Weaver at The Horizons Project, promoting peace, justice, and democracy through narrative and restorative practices. [LinkedIn]
• LaTosha Brown is a cultural activist and co-founder of Black Voters Matter, focused on empowering Black communities through voter engagement and philanthropy. [LinkedIn]
• Jenny Flores is the co-founder of AMH Catalyst and former Head of Small Business Growth Philanthropy at Wells Fargo, she leads initiatives to support underserved founders and drive economic opportunity for all. [LinkedIn]
• Doug Sandler is a podcast producer, author of Nice Guys Finish First, and co-founder of Turnkey Podcast Productions. [LinkedIn]
• Serbio Uzcategui is the CEO and founder of Piropo Flowers and a "Best in Show" winner at the 2023 Fleurs de Villes Hudson Yards show. He also launched Piropo Community, a nonprofit bringing joy through flowers to the people of NYC. [LinkedIn]

Connect with Kristine:

Website: https://www.impactfullinc.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfull_inc

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-breese-michie/ 

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Key Takeaways:

• Sometimes weaving looks like an artist at a loom, other times it’s more like a spider drifting and connecting between nodes. All of it suggests gathering ideas and inspiration from multiple sources.
• Play, joy, and creativity are not distractions but powerful tools for sustaining activism and deepening relationships.
• Courageous action must be both local and relational, focusing on repairing divides rather than reinforcing them.
• Organizing across networks instead of within silos is key to countering authoritarian threats and strengthening democracy.
• Large-scale change happens when people intentionally listen, bridge divides, and create spaces for new possibilities.
• Resistance and bridge-building are not opposing forces—they must happen together to create lasting transformation.
• Today’s political moment is a chance to build new coalitions, disrupt complacency, and inspire broader participation.

"I truly believe that whatever movement we’re building right now, it has to be reparative. We’re repairing society at the same time that we’re building this future democracy that we want." — Julia Roig

"You’ve got to build trust in order to perhaps even be a provocateur in some of the spaces. Because I think some of the weaving work really entails a lot of provocation." — Julia Roig

"We are hospicing a dying way of life while we give birth to a new way of being in the world." — Julia Roig

Episode References: 

Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam: https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046

Resources on Weaving in the social sector:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E1aFpJp8BA

https://designforsustainability.medium.com/deep-weaving-indigenous-earth-wisdom-mythology-and-cosmology-dad5da368b0d

https://weavinglab.org/what-is-weaving/